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Old 07-24-2012, 07:38 AM   #31
Pachilles
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

Me and Suzie are dicks! We're clowning, aggressive stupid dicks.

And Janitor and Burt, are era biassed pussies.

And Legend Y Chromosone and Pepe le Bitch, are subtle, passive aggressive, venomous assholes.

Pussies don't like dicks because pussies get ****ed by big black slick dicks. But big black dicks also **** assholes. Assholes that just want to shit on Muhammad Ali. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way, via newspaper decision. But the only thing that can **** an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is they **** too much or **** when it isn't appropriate. And it takes a ***** to show them that. But sometimes pussies can be so full of era biassed shit that they become assholes themselves. Because pussies are only an inch and half away from assholes and like the same fighters. I don't know much about this crazy classic forum, but I do know this.... If you don't let us dicks **** these assholes, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:43 AM   #32
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
Me and Suzie are dicks! We're clowning, aggressive stupid dicks.

And Janitor and Burt, are era biassed pussies.

And Legend Y Chromosone and Pepe le Bitch, are subtle, passive aggressive, venomous assholes.

Pussies don't like dicks because pussies get ****ed by big black slick dicks. But big black dicks also **** assholes. Assholes that just want to shit on Muhammad Ali. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way, via newspaper decision. But the only thing that can **** an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is they **** too much or **** when it isn't appropriate. And it takes a ***** to show them that. But sometimes pussies can be so full of era biassed shit that they become assholes themselves. Because pussies are only an inch and half away from assholes and like the same fighters. I don't know much about this crazy classic forum, but I do know this.... If you don't let us dicks **** these assholes, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit.


You need a shrink.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:04 AM   #33
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

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I will say my respect for Dempsey's competition is higher now than it has ever been but I still think Wills shade it. Some people weigh the title heavily. So you can argue Dempsey.

I'd have Wills and Dempsey in the same clutch, 14-10. I have Wills higher.
why? for me it's lower than ever
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:08 AM   #34
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

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why?
I now think Gibbons is a better fighter than I thought he was.

And I know Miske was a better fighter than I thought he was. Miske was an excellent fighter.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:08 AM   #35
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

Legend X,

My big problem with Jack Dempsey is some people refer to him as one of the best ever, yet he never even fought the overwhelmingly two best heavyweights of his era! Because of this, Jack Dempsey is very unproven in my eyes. Had Dempsey fought and beat Harry Greb and Harry Wills during his title reign instead of the losers of title eliminaters, I would probably rate Jack in my top 3-5 of all time. Instead, he is outside the top 10.

UNPROVEN
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:10 AM   #36
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

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I now think Gibbons is a better fighter than I thought he was.

And I know Miske was a better fighter than I thought he was. Miske was an excellent fighter.
I'll take the point on Gibbons. Definitely one of Dempsey's best victories. Only problem is, I don't think he was in his prime when Dempsey beat him in 1923. Still world class, but it appears to me Gibbons of the late teens who was thrashing Harry Greb was a completely different fighter. Plus he looked like shit in the Dempsey fight.

Dempsey never beat a prime Billy Miske. He fought to a 10 round draw with a prime Miske in 1918. When he rematched Billy Miske, he was a dying man by that point. He was no longer anywhere near his prime.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:11 AM   #37
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

Moyle has Dempsey beating Miske the first time. I'm siding with him over Boxrec. Certainly the wirte-ups in the press Moyle chose to reproduce in his book on Billy side with Jack.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:15 AM   #38
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

It was a no decision draw? Are you saying it should be changed to a ND W for Dempsey?


Dempsey never fought Sam Langford in 1917, never fought Greb/ Wills from 1919-1924....a huge blunder in my opinion. Never took on any black fighters after getting his ribs broken by john lester johnson.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:25 AM   #39
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

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Legend X,

My big problem with Jack Dempsey is some people refer to him as one of the best ever, yet he never even fought the overwhelmingly two best heavyweights of his era! Because of this, Jack Dempsey is very unproven in my eyes. Had Dempsey fought and beat Harry Greb and Harry Wills during his title reign instead of the losers of title eliminaters, I would probably rate Jack in my top 3-5 of all time. Instead, he is outside the top 10.

UNPROVEN
That's fair enough. But I still think he's one of the best ever. Is he in your top 20 ?
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:27 AM   #40
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

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That's fair enough. But I still think he's one of the best ever. Is he in your top 20 ?
Top 15 heavyweights of all time
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:31 AM   #41
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

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It was a no decision draw? Are you saying it should be changed to a ND W for Dempsey?.
Looks that way. I'm not going to dig deeper than Moyle so I'm happy with that.

He also dominated the six-rounder encounter they had later.

Note that Miske had symptoms of Bright's before either one of these fights but that he was also in his prime...Miske could have been more than he was, perhaps.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:37 AM   #42
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

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I now think Gibbons is a better fighter than I thought he was.

And I know Miske was a better fighter than I thought he was. Miske was an excellent fighter.



They were both tremendous fighters. Tommy Gibbons was a great fighter, imo. Maybe Billy Miske was too.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:39 AM   #43
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

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Top 15 heavyweights of all time
Well then, I find it odd that almost every time you mention Dempsey it's to compare him unfavourably with other great fighters.
You are certainly quite harsh towards Dempsey's opposition.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:47 AM   #44
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

I think highly of Dempsey's skills/punching abilities on film. I am quite critical toward his resume because I don't think highly of it at all without Greb and Wills on there. For a man to be considered a true great, he has to have beaten at least 1 of the two best fighters of his era. He managed to fight neither. Dempsey was an elite talent, who didn't live up to his greatness.

I think the big men Dempsey beat were complete jokes(outside of fulton, who was average).
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:49 AM   #45
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Default Re: Should Harry Wills be rated above Jack Dempsey?

Dempsey was the first test tube baby of the emerging powers of 20th century media, a constructed star in an artificial galaxy.

He was 80% media creation, 20% fighter. Still, he remains in my top-50 heavyweights, between Ruslan Chagaev and Mike Dokes. Not bad for an indigent from the wilds of Colorado.
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