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Old 07-21-2012, 01:52 PM   #1
SuzieQ49
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Default Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

vs


Harold Johnson

Ezzard Charles

Harry Greb

Tommy Gibbons

Bob Fitzsimmons

Primes
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
vs


Harold Johnson

Ezzard Charles

Harry Greb

Tommy Gibbons

Bob Fitzsimmons

Primes
Beats them all except for Charles...and he could win that one as well, but I would pick Charles to pull off what would likely be a fairly decent upset.
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

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Beats them all except for Charles...and he could win that one as well, but I would pick Charles to pull off what would likely be a fairly decent upset.
Charles was not good at handling long powerful heavyweight jabs. 36 year old Joe Louis turned Charles face into raw meat, and the big cuban nino valdes outjabbed charles all night long. A prime Sonny Liston had one of the best of all time. Charles face would be severely messed up in this fight, and Liston would eventually grind Charles down with the jab until he takes Charles out with a few haymakers. Charles never felt Liston kind of power and strength before either.
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

He should beat them all individualy, but if he fought tham all then one of them might cause the upset.

There is a hell of a lot of talent on that list.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

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He should beat them all individualy, but if he fought tham all then one of them might cause the upset.

There is a hell of a lot of talent on that list.
Well I mean if were talking Liston over the same time period of his career, we could see a repeat of Ali-Liston II. It either shows us that Liston's chin was vulnerable at times, or that he was prone to a fix. Either could play a role if he fought these guys over a period of time, however I'd still take Liston to beat them all.
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
vs


Harold Johnson

Ezzard Charles

Harry Greb

Tommy Gibbons

Bob Fitzsimmons

Primes

Greb is too small and gets annihilated in one or two rounds tops. Johnson and Gibbons are rugged and elusive and could last for awhile until Liston tracks them down and lays the wood on them. Fitz gets crushed ala Greb.

Charles is the most intiguing match-up. After all, he went the distance with Marciano once and defeated an ageing Joe Louis. That said, I just don't think Charles has the size, strength, chin, etc. to deal with Liston. The listless Sonny who let Machen go the distance notwithstanding.

Liston KO 7 Charles.
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

Greb beats him and makes him look silly in the process. A plodding heavyweight like Sonny won't catch Greb...it's Jones-Ruiz all over again.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:32 AM   #8
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
the big cuban nino valdes outjabbed charles all night long. .
No.

I have read reports on this fight and ninos jab was never mentioned. Charles decided to fight as a slugger, started much too fast and tired himself out after trying to knock nino out in the early rounds. After nearly going down and (having been beaten almost to a pulp) nino wrestled and mauled his way back into the fight using his size. Nino hung on, draining ezzard who was overweight and tired. After 3 big rounds for charles nino only needed to edge 4 of the remaining rounds that were all close.
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:56 AM   #9
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

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No.

I have read reports on this fight and ninos jab was never mentioned. Charles decided to fight as a slugger, started much too fast and tired himself out after trying to knock nino out in the early rounds. After nearly going down and (having been beaten almost to a pulp) nino wrestled and mauled his way back into the fight using his size. Nino hung on, draining ezzard who was overweight and tired. After 3 big rounds for charles nino only needed to edge 4 of the remaining rounds that were all close.
I disagree with you. For every source that lists Charles as being mauled or walked there is one that references the Valdes jab:

"Valdes won going away. He took advantage of his superior reach and weight to keep Charles off balance with a pesky left jab."
Lodi News

"Valdes wades in with a flurry of short jabs."
-The Windsor

I fear you are seeing what you want to rather than the real again.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:36 AM   #10
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

Should beat them all.

Should do it fairly comfortably also.

I'd give the best chance to gibbons because I can't see him being knocked out early and liston was never one to score a late knockout.

Fitz and greb are much too small and probably would never get beyond sonny's jab.

Charles and johnson don't have the required chin to deal with liston.

Gibbon's was a big lhw, highly skilled and quite durable. If any of those beat liston it's him, but i'd still make liston a heavy favourite.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:38 AM   #11
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I disagree with you. For every source that lists Charles as being mauled or walked there is one that references the Valdes jab:

"Valdes won going away. He took advantage of his superior reach and weight to keep Charles off balance with a pesky left jab."
Lodi News

"Valdes wades in with a flurry of short jabs."
-The Windsor

I fear you are seeing what you want to rather than the real again.
Thank god for those who take the time to back up their opinions
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:44 AM   #12
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

I think Liston would probably beat all those guys.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:15 AM   #13
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

I think Liston is too strong for all of them. Johnson and Gibbons would have their success at times in outboxing him but eventually he bullies and pounds them into submission.

Charles fight would be interesting. I could honestly see that going various different ways. A close points win to each man wouldn't be suprising.

Fitzsimmons is too slow and open, Liston bombs him out quick.

Greb is interesting but the Liston jab gives him trouble.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

Johnson would be the best fight, and I believe Johnson would win some rounds......but I see Liston by late TKO, since Johnson hadnīt a great chin.....
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I disagree with you. For every source that lists Charles as being mauled or walked there is one that references the Valdes jab:

"Valdes won going away. He took advantage of his superior reach and weight to keep Charles off balance with a pesky left jab."
Lodi News

"Valdes wades in with a flurry of short jabs."
-The Windsor

I fear you are seeing what you want to rather than the real again.
"Sarasota journal August 12th 1953

Charles weighing the heaviest of his career 191lb started out fast but after the third round Valdes took charge and never let up. Valdes weighed 209.
Charles apparently intended to make short work of the Cuban. He jolted Valdes with a right to the chin in the second round but in the third the Cuban walked Charles right across the ring and nailed him as he tried to move away. Late in the fight Charles swung long lefts and rights in a desperate attempt to land a knockout punch but Valdes kept pressing taking and giving in return."
 
Edmonton journal August 12th 1953

He continued to wade in on the ex heavyweight champion shooting for the body and shifting his attack to the head with short lefts and rights.

Kentucky New Era August 12th 1953

Valdes came from behind to out slug Charles in a fight that was fast all the way. Charles who before the fight was number one rated challenger said Valdes never hurt him. “He was a strong fighter and a good mauler but he never hurt me” said the ex champion."

Cannot find any quotes about ninos jabs.

Last edited by choklab; 07-25-2012 at 04:47 PM.
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