What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

[Flo_Raiden]

What do you think of Ali as a technician? Was Muhammad Ali really a skilled boxer with bad habits or was he really technically flawed who got away with it because of his athletic talent?

[BillB]

Ali depended on foot speed, hand speed and natural agility.

He wasn't a tecnician.

[Robbi]

Ali was pretty basic and wasn't very varied in his arsenal. Larry Holmes was a better all round fighter.

[LittleRed]

From the waist down Ali was fundamentally sound. Not so much from the waist up.

[Boxed Ears]

Ali's fundamentals weren't very fundamental. He was unorthodox for the most part and defensively he's sort of dismissive of fundamentals at all. And Ali's ring IQ is generally overrated, from my perspective. His nearly inhuman toughness is underrated. I find it funny how much is placed on one, which wasn't of the highest grade and how little is placed on the other-which is about as great as it gets. It's amazing to me how hand-speed alters the perception of quality of thought and technical ability in boxers.

Originally Posted by Robbi

Ali was pretty basic and wasn't very varied in his arsenal. Larry Holmes was a better all round fighter.

Holmes was a better technician.

[Bogotazo]

I think Ali was fairly technically sound. There's a difference between getting away with not knowing the rules, and knowing the rules but choosing when and how to break them. Ali was almost never off balance when moving his head at unconventional angles, knew how to judge the range so as to not expose his chin, and had very good punching form. You can tell that as rounds progressed, he'd start baiting counters and timing the right punches over them. Post-exile Ali sat down on his punches and gave more looks with his guard, since he had to. He wasn't the most conventional and had his share of casualties from leaning back after dropping the right before throwing it (most notably that left hook from the likes of Cooper, Bonavena, and Frazier), but he was sound and smart all the same.

[Legend X]

He was probably more "orthodox" in his boxing than some people have said.
There was a lot of stuff he didn't really bother with - either due to laziness or because he had so much talent and ability he didn't need to.
But he wasn't unique in that way. There have been many many great fighters who 'the experts' say didn't do this or that 'correctly'.

Many fighters with fast feet and reflexes had used the 'lean back' defensive maneuvers before Cassius Clay came along. For a tall fighter (Ali was 6'3 often going up against men 2 or 3 inches shorter) with the reflexes and foot speed, the leaning back would be a natural and sound method. Whether it should be labelled 'unorthodix' or 'incorrect' I don't know.
Many fighters had held their hands low before too.


As far as 'fundamentals' go, Ali favoured the straight left jabs over lead rights (even if he used 'too many' of the latter) and made good use of the old one-two. He mixed in some hooks and uppercuts when he threw combinations.
This is all standard and fundamentally sound.

[MrBumboclart]

Got to disagree with everyone who says he was successful purely because of natural talent. Granted he was blessed with a cast iron chin, graceful feet and blinding speed.

BUT after '71 all the speed and grace started to fade and Ali still whupped men and fought at top level for around 10 years longer, beating men half his age.

He was a very sharp fighter, very smart and very technical. Watch the Ron Lyle fight and how he sets up that one-two, the best one-two I've ever seen.

Yes he had a lot of gifts but he was smart as hell also.

[turbotime]

He definitely used his superior athleticism and sturdy chin to get him through most contests. But again, to act likes his combos and leads and jabs were liable to learn off the street, is also absurd.

He was complete.

[frankenfrank]

basic , obvious , predictable , flawed , 1dimensional , (borderline) retarded or retarded with xperience .


what helped 2 compensate 4 it were his size , dedication , n added fouling dimension 2 his style and a shrewd criminal as a trainer .

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by turbotime

He definitely used his superior athleticism and sturdy chin to get him through most contests. But again, to act likes his combos and leads and jabs were liable to learn off the street, is also absurd.

He was complete.

He was very uncomplete. He held inside, wasn't good up close, and he also seldom punched to the body.

However, he was excellent at what he could do; Ring generalship, combination punching, boxing ability, accuracy, etc. He was also mentally tough and durable.

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by Robbi

He was very uncomplete. He held inside, wasn't good up close, and he also seldom punched to the body.

However, he was excellent at what he could do; Ring generalship, combination punching, boxing ability, accuracy, etc. He was also mentally tough and durable.

You think Holmes would have displayed better in-fighting at a late stage of his career against Frazier in Manilla like Ali had? Ali's in-fighting ability gets often overlooked because he held exponentially more as he became more and more of a shot fighter and also happened to run up against the greatest HW in-fighter ever.

[RockysSplitNose]

At the end of the day if you were that pretty and that fast would you really worry overly about the fundamentals?? Archie Moore said "Like someone who can write beautiful poetry but has no idea how to punctuate"

[the cobra]

Originally Posted by Bogotazo

There's a difference between getting away with not knowing the rules, and knowing the rules but choosing when and how to break them.

I think this sums him up best. Ali knew the fundamentals just fine. Far better than I'd expect some to believe, in fact. He chose not to always (or even frequently) adhere to them because he had the kind of ability that could make a flaw a strength if played right.

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by Bogotazo

I think Ali was fairly technically sound. There's a difference between getting away with not knowing the rules, and knowing the rules but choosing when and how to break them. Ali was almost never off balance when moving his head at unconventional angles, knew how to judge the range so as to not expose his chin, and had very good punching form. You can tell that as rounds progressed, he'd start baiting counters and timing the right punches over them. Post-exile Ali sat down on his punches and gave more looks with his guard, since he had to. He wasn't the most conventional and had his share of casualties from leaning back after dropping the right before throwing it (most notably that left hook from the likes of Cooper, Bonavena, and Frazier), but he was sound and smart all the same.

Good post.