UFC on Fox 4 - lineup better than UFC 149?

Kittikasem · 07-28-2012, 02:57 PM

Has the Fox deal blurred the boundaries to the point that there is now no difference between the actual numbered UFC events, and the subsidiary ones?

UFC on Fox 4 features:

Shogun
Machida
Phil Davis
Bader, Varner (hot off the win over Barboza), Lauzon, Gamburyan, Swick, Damarques Johnson etc

I mean, the lowest fight on the card is Cole Miller vs Nam Phan.

And, for me anyway, a headline double-bill of both Shogun and Machida (both top 5 lhw's) is worth paying for.

By contrast, UFC 149 had Matt Riddle vs Chris Clements and James Head vs Brian Ebersole on the main card.

Broony · 07-28-2012, 06:35 PM

Yeah Fox card has much more star power than the last PPV, unfortunately for Dana the fights on 149 didn't make up for the shortage of big name fighters so ended up the worst UFC since I began watching....They were bound to have a stinker at some point, maybe athe little kick up the arse you need when you have no competition

Thom · 07-29-2012, 12:52 AM

The "UFC on Fox" cards are supposed to be big time PPV quality cards aired on network TV. It's not really fair to compare 149 to Fox 4 because 149 was meant to be a smaller PPV coming off of the big 4th of July weekend show even before the card was destroyed by injuries. The original headliner was Aldo/Koch*, and we know Aldo isn't any kind of PPV draw in the US. At least not yet.

It is obvious, however, that the sheer number of events and dilution of talent has led to a decline in quality of PPV cards. Realistically speaking, Munoz/Weidman should have been the third fight on a PPV or maybe even a co-main event. Instead, it was the main event of a mid-week Fuel TV card.

*ETA: I typed Poirier, but I meant Erik Koch. I always get those two confused.

Haggis McJackass · 07-29-2012, 05:51 AM

Yeah I think this Fox card is pretty stacked.

149, well, it's very easy to just shit all over it. But it was devastated by injury, so a pretty mediocre card turned into a disaster. It was right to have Aldo scheduled to defend his title in a headline match, rather than just a co-main event. He's good enough that he should have a card where he's the big shot of the night.

And for the record, I think Riddle was on the prelims, they bumped it onto the main card because of stoppages? IIRC it was not a scheduled as a main card fight.

Not that I would have a problem with seeing Riddle low on the main card anyway. The guy is very easy to cheer for. Clearly he loves fighting, you never see him without a huge genuine grin on his face, and he leaves it all out there in the cage. He's a very fan-friendly fighter IMO. He's never going to win a title, but I've never watched Riddle fight and gone away thinking that he gave anything less than 100% of his best effort to entertain the paying customers. He's a very humble and respectful guy, he really tries to give the fans a fight and have fun while he does it, and I have a lot of respect for that.

Kittikasem · 07-29-2012, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Not that I would have a problem with seeing Riddle low on the main card anyway. The guy is very easy to cheer for. Clearly he loves fighting, you never see him without a huge genuine grin on his face, and he leaves it all out there in the cage. He's a very fan-friendly fighter IMO. He's never going to win a title, but I've never watched Riddle fight and gone away thinking that he gave anything less than 100% of his best effort to entertain the paying customers. He's a very humble and respectful guy, he really tries to give the fans a fight and have fun while he does it, and I have a lot of respect for that.

Lovely person or not, Riddle is not a main card fighter at a numbered UFC event IMO. There are many fighters that I have an affection for (much like you do for Riddle) but that doesn't mean they should be ppv fighters. You have to earn that type of placing as I see it. Then again, the lineup for 149 was that shit he had as much right to be on there as any of the alternatives (since Ring and McGee were both coming off losses).

Haggis McJackass · 07-29-2012, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittikasem

Lovely person or not, Riddle is not a main card fighter at a numbered UFC event IMO. There are many fighters that I have an affection for (much like you do for Riddle) but that doesn't mean they should be ppv fighters. You have to earn that type of placing as I see it. Then again, the lineup for 149 was that shit he had as much right to be on there as any of the alternatives (since Ring and McGee were both coming off losses).

Well, I agree he's not generally a main card fighter. Though there's plenty of main card types he'd put up a good scrap against IMO. But on an injury-hit, poor-quality PPV card, and he's a prelim guy who gets bumped up because they need to fill airtime or someone pulls out? Sure, I won't complain.

I'd rather watch Riddle vs anyone than Tito vs Forrest 3.

Riddle is a likeable character and a limited fighter. But win or lose, he is tough and he always fights his heart out for the crowd. He leaves everything out there and clearly loves every second of it. And there's a place for guys like that on any card IMO. Not every fighter can hope to be elite, but I'd rather watch a guy like Riddle than another boring generic all-American collegiate wrestler type.

achillesthegreat · 07-29-2012, 10:25 AM

The PPVs need to take a step back, maybe 1 every other month. With Fox, Fuel TV etc they can't justify 1+ PPV per month. Alot of fights seem meaningless now. The roster is getting too big of too saturated with dross. Alot of these good fights that lack real meaning should be on Strikeforce. I want to see good fights in an organised fashion but the UFC needs to stay synonmous with the very elite of MMA. Pass over their marketing and good organisation to Strikeforce and let them flaunt guys looking for a break.

LHL · 07-29-2012, 11:51 AM

Everyone's being a bit harsh on the 149 card I feel. Look a good card before the injuries and there were a shit load.

The original card I think was supposed to be:

Aldo Vs Koch (Title fight)
Faber Vs Barao (Interim Title fight)
Bisping Vs Boetsch
Akiayma Vs Alves
T. Silva Vs Rua
Big Nog Vs Kongo

Plus a few more some very good fights there and very meaningful.

Kittikasem · 07-29-2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

I'd rather watch Riddle paint a fence than Tito vs Forrest 3.

I agree with this (fixed) statement.

Tito-Forrest III. The ultimate 'Who Gives A Shit'.

07-28-2012, 02:57 PM	#1
Kittikasem Andre Ward: #1 SMW Ever ESB Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2,284 vCash: 500	UFC on Fox 4 - lineup better than UFC 149? Has the Fox deal blurred the boundaries to the point that there is now no difference between the actual numbered UFC events, and the subsidiary ones? UFC on Fox 4 features: Shogun Machida Phil Davis Bader, Varner (hot off the win over Barboza), Lauzon, Gamburyan, Swick, Damarques Johnson etc I mean, the lowest fight on the card is Cole Miller vs Nam Phan. And, for me anyway, a headline double-bill of both Shogun and Machida (both top 5 lhw's) is worth paying for. By contrast, UFC 149 had Matt Riddle vs Chris Clements and James Head vs Brian Ebersole on the main card.
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07-28-2012, 06:35 PM	#2
Broony Gatekeeper ESB Full Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 468 vCash: 500	Re: UFC on Fox 4 - lineup better than UFC 149? Yeah Fox card has much more star power than the last PPV, unfortunately for Dana the fights on 149 didn't make up for the shortage of big name fighters so ended up the worst UFC since I began watching....They were bound to have a stinker at some point, maybe athe little kick up the arse you need when you have no competition
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07-29-2012, 12:52 AM	#3
Thom Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,817 vCash: 1000	Re: UFC on Fox 4 - lineup better than UFC 149? The "UFC on Fox" cards are supposed to be big time PPV quality cards aired on network TV. It's not really fair to compare 149 to Fox 4 because 149 was meant to be a smaller PPV coming off of the big 4th of July weekend show even before the card was destroyed by injuries. The original headliner was Aldo/Koch, and we know Aldo isn't any kind of PPV draw in the US. At least not yet. It is obvious, however, that the sheer number of events and dilution of talent has led to a decline in quality of PPV cards. Realistically speaking, Munoz/Weidman should have been the third fight on a PPV or maybe even a co-main event. Instead, it was the main event of a mid-week Fuel TV card. ETA: I typed Poirier, but I meant Erik Koch. I always get those two confused. Last edited by Thom; 07-29-2012 at 11:47 AM.
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07-29-2012, 05:51 AM	#4
Haggis McJackass Semi-neutralist Overseer East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: From the Lands Down Under. Posts: 22,498 vCash: 177	Re: UFC on Fox 4 - lineup better than UFC 149? Yeah I think this Fox card is pretty stacked. 149, well, it's very easy to just shit all over it. But it was devastated by injury, so a pretty mediocre card turned into a disaster. It was right to have Aldo scheduled to defend his title in a headline match, rather than just a co-main event. He's good enough that he should have a card where he's the big shot of the night. And for the record, I think Riddle was on the prelims, they bumped it onto the main card because of stoppages? IIRC it was not a scheduled as a main card fight. Not that I would have a problem with seeing Riddle low on the main card anyway. The guy is very easy to cheer for. Clearly he loves fighting, you never see him without a huge genuine grin on his face, and he leaves it all out there in the cage. He's a very fan-friendly fighter IMO. He's never going to win a title, but I've never watched Riddle fight and gone away thinking that he gave anything less than 100% of his best effort to entertain the paying customers. He's a very humble and respectful guy, he really tries to give the fans a fight and have fun while he does it, and I have a lot of respect for that.
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07-29-2012, 10:25 AM	#7
achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,203 vCash: 1000	Re: UFC on Fox 4 - lineup better than UFC 149? The PPVs need to take a step back, maybe 1 every other month. With Fox, Fuel TV etc they can't justify 1+ PPV per month. Alot of fights seem meaningless now. The roster is getting too big of too saturated with dross. Alot of these good fights that lack real meaning should be on Strikeforce. I want to see good fights in an organised fashion but the UFC needs to stay synonmous with the very elite of MMA. Pass over their marketing and good organisation to Strikeforce and let them flaunt guys looking for a break.
Top

07-29-2012, 11:51 AM	#8
LHL Captain Freedom East Side VIP Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Belfast Posts: 18,778 vCash: 2835	Re: UFC on Fox 4 - lineup better than UFC 149? Everyone's being a bit harsh on the 149 card I feel. Look a good card before the injuries and there were a shit load. The original card I think was supposed to be: Aldo Vs Koch (Title fight) Faber Vs Barao (Interim Title fight) Bisping Vs Boetsch Akiayma Vs Alves T. Silva Vs Rua Big Nog Vs Kongo Plus a few more some very good fights there and very meaningful.
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