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Old 08-01-2012, 07:09 PM   #76
Seamus
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

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Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
The size discrepancy between Wlad & Byrd is relatively close to Johnson and Langford, which of those opponents were of a higher quality?

What's funny is you laud Langford as the P4P best ever.

Your standards for early HW pugilism are exorbitant.
It's not about size discrepancy. It's about division discrepancy. Johnson was a heavyweight by his day's standard. Langford was smallish middleweight. Wlad is a heavyweight by today's standards, Martinez a smallish middle. Byrd was a legit 210 pound heavyweight.

Lauding Langford as one of the greatest fighters ever and giving Johnson proper credit for beating a very light Langford who had yet been tested as a heavy are two different issues. My stances on each are completely reconcilable.

My standards for early HW pugilism are consistent with those for the modern ranks. My problem is with the separate set of standards exhibited on this board.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:12 PM   #77
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

Why don't we just add up all the weights of a fighter's opponents and get the TOTAL TONNAGE (TT) he faced.
Then divide that by number of fights he had, to find AVERAGE WEIGHT OF OPPONENT (AW).

Multiply TT by AW to find out who was the greatest heavyweight of all-time.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:17 PM   #78
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

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I understand that Martin was 205.
So he weighed in at 186 and 190lb for two fights right before fighting johnson, then he suddenly shoots up to 205lb like that?
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:28 PM   #79
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

I'm still waiting on the list of HOF Liston beat in comparison to Johnson...
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:42 PM   #80
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
So he weighed in at 186 and 190lb for two fights right before fighting johnson, then he suddenly shoots up to 205lb like that?

Martin scaled 190lbs 4 years before he fought Johnson.


Johnson scaled 185 when he fought Sailor Burke in 1907,4 years later he scaled 208/212lbs for fights.


If he could add 23/27lbs in 4 years ,why couldn't Martin add 15lbs in the same time frame?



Below, Johnson's ko of Martin.





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Old 08-01-2012, 07:44 PM   #81
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

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It's not about size discrepancy. It's about division discrepancy. Johnson was a heavyweight by his day's standard. Langford was smallish middleweight.

My standards for early HW pugilism are consistent with those for the modern ranks.
Langford was a HW by his days standards. A very small HW, but a HW. Yes, he was a contesting MW during the point Johnson beat him but he was not merely a MW. That is not fair to Langford. Eventually he grew into being a bigger, more standard HW of his day. Your complaints about him being untested have merit. However, Langford had beaten Jeannette prior to the Johnson fight. Two years later he beat Jeannette and Flynn again and scaled around 166 pounds at that point. I wouldn't call him just a MW then just because he scaled around the MW limit when he was fighting HWs. Yes, he became an ever bigger and better HW when he filled out to his peak weight of about 185 pounds. Nobody would deny this.

Our biggest disagreement is probably your last statement which I think is a little unfair and unrealistic. I would have liked Johnson to defend his title against Langford, Jeannete, and McVey but the times didn't permit it. He did defeat McVea and Jeannete multiple times to defend his colored title. That seems to be meaningless to you, though.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:49 PM   #82
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

I think anyone over 158 pounds was a heavyweight in Jack Johnson's day.
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:21 PM   #83
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

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I'm still waiting on the list of HOF Liston beat in comparison to Johnson...
The Hall of Fame is a popularity contest.
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:13 AM   #84
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

According to my opinion Johnson has best resume format. As most of the chances fr getting selection in a company depends upon your resume .Also for building your career you must get a best job & best Salary.Also most of the companies prefer this standard resume format only.Also after viewing your resume interviewer gets an idea about what are your educational qualification & what type of job you are searching & what are your career objective points that you are trying to achieve it.So you should take care while writing a resume.
So,for more information about How to write a resume using Resume builder software you may visit this site(link):-
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:39 AM   #85
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Byrd was an established force at heavyweight and weighed in at 213 pounds. Langford had beaten no one yet of note in the heavyweight ranks and weighed in at 156 pounds. Johnson was, for the day, a full fledged heavyweight at 185 pounds, just 9 pounds shy of his dominating performance against Burns.

I am not denigrating Johnson for beating the Langford like a redheaded stepchild. Kudo's for him. However, for me, it is not the shining moment on a great resume when a legit heavyweight takes out a middleweight.
Wlad fight 1: 238
Byrd fight 1: 213
Size difference: 25

Wlad fight 2: 241
Byrd fight 2: 213
Size difference: 28

Johnson: 185
Langford: 156
Size difference: 29

Not much difference


Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Folley, Machen, Williams, and Patterson....Yes.

Patterson is clearly far better on film than anyone Johnson beat


Machen, Folley are better textbook skillful boxers than anyone johnson beat

Williams is a bigger puncher than anyone johnson beat
Williams does not belong there. Overrated like crazy that dude. He was no batter than someone like Jim Johnson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
It's not about size discrepancy. It's about division discrepancy. Johnson was a heavyweight by his day's standard. Langford was smallish middleweight. Wlad is a heavyweight by today's standards, Martinez a smallish middle. Byrd was a legit 210 pound heavyweight.

Lauding Langford as one of the greatest fighters ever and giving Johnson proper credit for beating a very light Langford who had yet been tested as a heavy are two different issues. My stances on each are completely reconcilable.

My standards for early HW pugilism are consistent with those for the modern ranks. My problem is with the separate set of standards exhibited on this board.
How can Langford be a smallish mw when the mw limit around the time was 158 and the lhw division barely existed?
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:55 AM   #86
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
So he weighed in at 186 and 190lb for two fights right before fighting johnson, then he suddenly shoots up to 205lb like that?
Martin weighed up to 240lbs for some of his fights.
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:58 AM   #87
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

In heavyweight contests in the days of Jack Johnson I don't think they even bothered weighing the fighters. It was mostly speculation and hearsay.
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Old 08-02-2012, 05:46 AM   #88
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhi View Post
Wlad fight 1: 238
Byrd fight 1: 213
Size difference: 25

Wlad fight 2: 241
Byrd fight 2: 213
Size difference: 28

Johnson: 185
Langford: 156
Size difference: 29

Not much difference




Williams does not belong there. Overrated like crazy that dude. He was no batter than someone like Jim Johnson.



How can Langford be a smallish mw when the mw limit around the time was 158 and the lhw division barely existed?
Size difference should be done as a ratio/fraction/factor rather than a spread.

For example 1 pound to 21 pounds is a much bigger fighting difference than 200 pounds to 220 pounds.

Hence why the weight between weight classes increases as you move up.
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:42 AM   #89
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

Big Cat Williams would have flattened Denver Ed Martin
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:56 AM   #90
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhi View Post
Wlad fight 1: 238
Byrd fight 1: 213
Size difference: 25

Wlad fight 2: 241
Byrd fight 2: 213
Size difference: 28

Johnson: 185
Langford: 156
Size difference: 29

Not much difference




Williams does not belong there. Overrated like crazy that dude. He was no batter than someone like Jim Johnson.



How can Langford be a smallish mw when the mw limit around the time was 158 and the lhw division barely existed?

This is such a disingenuous argument. There is a far bigger difference between a 156 pounder and a 185 pounder than there is between a 241 and 213 pounder and you absolutely know this (or are a complete retard).

Let's see... David Haye just thrashed Chisora with a differential about the same, Chris Byrd was routinely able to do the same, Joe Louis could do it with ease... hell, even Roy Jones did something similar.

Now, when is the last time a World Class middleweight, fighting as at the middleweight limit took out a world class heavyweight or even cruiserweight?

I am waiting...
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