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Old 08-01-2012, 06:06 PM   #16
PetethePrince
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Default Re: Duran's Defense

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If you a refering to Ray Arcel, he never claimed to have taught Duran much if anything.
Arcel said Duran was a natural fighter.
Instinctually, but I imagine that a lot of what he did was taught and implemented through practice. You could be right though. I think would be far more unconventional and technically incorrect if he wasn't taught at some point or level.

What exactly did Arcel do for Duran, then? Implement strategies?
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: Duran's Defense

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Instinctually, but I imagine that a lot of what he did was taught and implemented through practice. You could be right though. I think would be far more unconventional and technically incorrect if he wasn't taught at some point or level.

What exactly did Arcel do for Duran, then? Implement strategies?
Yeah, i think someone probably taught him the basics when he started boxing. I'm not sure, but I would certainly think so.

I'm not sure what Arcel and Brown did with Duran.
Maybe tweaked a few things, or maybe were just there to put him through his training regime and gauge his progress, get him to peak his condition at the right time.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:53 PM   #18
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Default Re: Duran's Defense

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Duran paid almost no attention to defence. He was a face-first brawler, much like Hagler, throughout his career. The sole reason anyone pays attention to him is his "win" over "Leonard" but in actuality, the real Leonard, a typically negative slickster, fought Duran's fight, aka zero boxing, all brawling. That fight was basically a flat-footed slugfest, whereas the typical Leonard, as seen in the second fight, was a fleet-footed boxing master with constant movement and almost no punching, the way a master like Jimmy Young would do it.

That fight saw Duran's impotent, no-defence, crude brawling unable to penetrate the invisible wall in front of Leonard. Anytime anyone boxed Duran, he lost. As seen in Leonard 2, Hearns and Benitez. A terribly overrated fighter. All he had was his chin, his punch and his intimidation tactics. And boxrec will show you his kayo ratio isn't even that good and he could be stopped, so maybe he should've paid more attention to learning to box. Then MAYBE he'd have won more than one of his biggest fights. ODLH 1.0, if anything.

I heard a rumour it was MAG's birthday, is why.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:52 AM   #19
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Default Re: Duran's Defense

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Yeah, i think someone probably taught him the basics when he started boxing. I'm not sure, but I would certainly think so.

I'm not sure what Arcel and Brown did with Duran.
Maybe tweaked a few things, or maybe were just there to put him through his training regime and gauge his progress, get him to peak his condition at the right time.
Duran already knew how to fight when Arcel and Brown came on the scene. I do believe working with Freddie Brown day to day improved Duran`s boxing skills especially his infighting finesse. The angles he gave and his boxing accuracy on the inside.

Freddie Brown mightve been the great boxing teacher who ever lived.
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:23 AM   #20
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Default Re: Duran's Defense

Durans offense was his defence..One of the best counter punchers ever..And in my opinion best lightweight ever!
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Old 08-02-2012, 04:58 AM   #21
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Well one thing he definitely did that was not textbook or "technically correct" was that he would slip right hands by moving to his own right, but he always seemed to make it work partially because he had his right hand up at all times to block the inevitable following left hook.
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:23 PM   #22
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The way he rolled with the right to take the steam off of it was masterful. The vision and the reflexes were amazing. I dont think you can teach the average boxer to do it that way. You have to have some gifts.

Alot of times it looked like Duran was really getting hit but he wasnt. He was a one of a kind boxing genius.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:05 PM   #23
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From the start of his career thru 1977, his offense was his defense.

You just knew, that Roberto could walk through any of his opponents punches.

And most of his opponents, were always moving backwards after a few rounds.

The art of Roberto slipping and rolling with punches, looks more of a natural ability,
as he had that 'Sixth Sense' to know what was coming.

Though, he did have a bit of a problem with 'boxer-movers', those 15-Rounds gave
Roberto enough time to catch them, and he did.

'Sweet' Saoul Mamby, a 'defensive wizard' in his own right, said that Roberto Duran
was, without a doubt, the most difficult fighter to hit cleanly.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:59 PM   #24
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Default Re: Duran's Defense

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The way he rolled with the right to take the steam off of it was masterful. The vision and the reflexes were amazing. I dont think you can teach the average boxer to do it that way. You have to have some gifts.

Alot of times it looked like Duran was really getting hit but he wasnt. He was a one of a kind boxing genius.
Yes I agree it was masterful, but definitely not "correct" in the textbook sense.
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: Duran's Defense

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He's joking. He's copying the the posting style of MAG1965, who always runs down Duran and pumps Hearns, among others. Hence the reference to MAG in black at the end of the post.
I don't pump up Hearns and run down Duran. I just think I am being objective. Tommy beat and knocked out greats. Cuevas,Duran, and outboxed Benitez and Hill. Duran beat Leonard when Ray fought his fight, and then lost to all the greats. That is not pumping up Hearns, that is a fact. Being Ray was ok, but when Tommy beat Duran,Benitez,Hill and Cuevas, they were all champions and experienced. Ray was not in 1980, and in the rematch Ray put on a show for everyone with his skills and fought his fight. I think Duran is great, but not the 1-5 some think he is. I always said top 25. which could be 25 or even 15. I don't think top 25 is so terrible a place to be on the ATG ranking.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:44 PM   #26
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Default Re: Duran's Defense

Duran's third fight against DeJesus was a fine defensive performance against a skilled opponent who seemed to have his number with the left hook. I believe Duran was told to box in the early rounds and he showcased that pressure fighting was far from all that he knew.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlD9UjDa9uM[/ame]

7:00

Obviously his natural fighter's instincts always played a part in him being able to avoid as many blows as he could with his aggressive style but there were fights of his that displayed a level of skill that couldn't have been obtained through mere talent alone. It's difficult to imagine the likes of Freddie Brown and Ray Arcel being no other than cheerleaders in his corner, they must have had some input.
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:26 PM   #27
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Default Re: Duran's Defense

people need to see lw duran to see his greatness, he never stood still he was allways bobing/moving on the spot, this means you dont know if he is feinting or jabbing or moving forward.

i think the grestest thing about duran is the fact he has litteraly no weakness.
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:38 PM   #28
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Default Re: Duran's Defense

I know I'm always shoe-horning Napoles in wherever I can, but I wanted to say, he's one of the only fighters on Duran's level (earlier career Napoles) when it comes to offensive counter punching with slick head movement and snappy shots. I can't separate them.
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:00 PM   #29
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Default Re: Duran's Defense

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Originally Posted by MAG1965 View Post
I don't pump up Hearns and run down Duran. I just think I am being objective. Tommy beat and knocked out greats. Cuevas,Duran, and outboxed Benitez and Hill. Duran beat Leonard when Ray fought his fight, and then lost to all the greats. That is not pumping up Hearns, that is a fact. Being Ray was ok, but when Tommy beat Duran,Benitez,Hill and Cuevas, they were all champions and experienced. Ray was not in 1980, and in the rematch Ray put on a show for everyone with his skills and fought his fight. I think Duran is great, but not the 1-5 some think he is. I always said top 25. which could be 25 or even 15. I don't think top 25 is so terrible a place to be on the ATG ranking.
Beating Leonard in Montreal was just "ok"? Yea MAG, real objective. Let's make excuses for Ray when he was in his prime and allow none when Duran went on to compete with much bigger, fresher men.
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:23 PM   #30
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The guy had an 'awesome chin' too.

That always helped.
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