Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Other > MMA Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-02-2012, 03:21 PM   #16
Rob_Floyd
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,713
vCash: 847
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Cooling View Post
Greco has better throws
I would say that Judo is the more effective takedown art, seeing as you are allowed the use of your legs. Gives you a lot more options.
Rob_Floyd is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-02-2012, 03:21 PM   #17
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,853
vCash: 75
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

Lombard uses his judo base to stay on his feet.

I think some of the more effective throws in Judo might not be so useful in a no-gi situation. Akiyama demonstrated some beautiful trips against Shields, no slouch in the grappling department of course, so I'd like to see more of that.

Karo was ace though.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 05:12 PM   #18
cat_funt
Arsehole of the world
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 236
vCash: 3312
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJJFan View Post
Problem with Judo is that they throw and land without worrying about the opponent taking their back.

For MMA, they have to throw and land immediately in side position, not just throw and expose their back.
Yeah Judoka have to get out of the habit of giving up their back. But its very effective when adapted as proven already.
cat_funt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 06:28 PM   #19
Primate
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,415
vCash: 500
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by geppy View Post
How many judo throws have you ever seen used in the UFC? You could count them on one hand.
That's kinda the point. The opportunities for them are there. If guys had a greater knowledge/training base, they might be able to hit them. There's plenty of times I've seen guys pressed against the cage while one guy constantly drops to latch onto a single he never gets. Trips and foot sweeps of Judo would be a great addition to some guys arsenals.

Quote:
90 % of the stuff they teach you in Judo, you can't use effectively against a real opponent or in a fight. Yeah, maybe some bum on the street with no fighting experiance you could do a hip toss ( O Goshi) on. You learn armbars really well, thats is about it.
I'm sorry but this is straight up bullshit. 90% of the stuff they teach you probably won't be used, because you'll probably hit the first throw, trip or sweep you attempt. Unless whoever you're against happens to be a Judo, BJJ, greco or some other grappling practitioner, chances are you'll be able to drop them almost at will if you're any good at what you're doing.

Obviously in MMA that is going to change, but it's no different from the situation described above with one guy latching onto constant single legs and failing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Red View Post
I agree, BJJ was learned in Japan by the Gracies.
Where do you get this shit?
Primate is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 09:33 PM   #20
Vic-JofreBRASIL
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,697
vCash: 1166
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primate View Post
There's plenty of times I've seen guys pressed against the cage while one guy constantly drops to latch onto a single he never gets. Trips and foot sweeps of Judo would be a great addition to some guys arsenals.
Vic-JofreBRASIL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 09:44 PM   #21
geppy
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raping James Toney
Posts: 2,398
vCash: 2166
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primate View Post
That's kinda the point. The opportunities for them are there. If guys had a greater knowledge/training base, they might be able to hit them. There's plenty of times I've seen guys pressed against the cage while one guy constantly drops to latch onto a single he never gets. Trips and foot sweeps of Judo would be a great addition to some guys arsenals.


I'm sorry but this is straight up bullshit. 90% of the stuff they teach you probably won't be used, because you'll probably hit the first throw, trip or sweep you attempt. Unless whoever you're against happens to be a Judo, BJJ, greco or some other grappling practitioner, chances are you'll be able to drop them almost at will if you're any good at what you're doing.

Obviously in MMA that is going to change, but it's no different from the situation described above with one guy latching onto constant single legs and failing.


Where do you get this shit?
I am talking about Pro MMA, not a judo guy vs a bum in the street. Using Judo throws without a GI on a pro fighter is extremely difficult.


Not having the GI takes away the sleeve to grab a hold of and the lapel to grab and control the neck, which you need for throws.

Yeah, the trips are much easier done and under used I agree with that.

Judo throws arent done that often because they are so hard to execute, it is that simple.
geppy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 09:45 PM   #22
Stoo
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,933
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

RE the post Vic just quoted Primate, wouldnt it be difficult to foot sweep someone you are pressing against the cage. I know very little about Judo, so would be interested in your point of view as too how this would work From what I understand isnt this most effective n pushing your opponents momentum backwards? With a side sweep you'd be sacrificing control against the cage
Stoo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 09:45 PM   #23
RJJFan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,253
vCash: 448
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primate View Post
That's kinda the point. The opportunities for them are there. If guys had a greater knowledge/training base, they might be able to hit them. There's plenty of times I've seen guys pressed against the cage while one guy constantly drops to latch onto a single he never gets. Trips and foot sweeps of Judo would be a great addition to some guys arsenals.


I'm sorry but this is straight up bullshit. 90% of the stuff they teach you probably won't be used, because you'll probably hit the first throw, trip or sweep you attempt. Unless whoever you're against happens to be a Judo, BJJ, greco or some other grappling practitioner, chances are you'll be able to drop them almost at will if you're any good at what you're doing.

Obviously in MMA that is going to change, but it's no different from the situation described above with one guy latching onto constant single legs and failing.


Where do you get this shit?
BJJ was learned from a Japanese in Brazil.
RJJFan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 10:02 PM   #24
geppy
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raping James Toney
Posts: 2,398
vCash: 2166
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

Watch top level wrestlers in MMA go for take downs.

Now compare the wrestling to these Judo World Champion, and Olympic Champion Judo players trying judo throws in an MMA fight. What do you think has the higher % of getting a take down?

Hidenhiko Yoshida, Olympic Gold Medal in Judo.
Min Soo Kim , Silver Olympic Medal in Judo.
Pawel Nastula, Olympic Gold Medal in Judo.
Satoshi Ishii, Olympic Gold medal in Judo.


As pro MMA fighters their records are:
Yoshida 9 wins and 8 losses.
Min Soo Kim 3 wins and 7 losses.
Pawel Nastula 4 wins and 4 losses.
Ishii 4 wins and 2 lossses

These are the very best in the World at Judo, the top .01 % of Judo players and you can see their pro records. Does that tell you anything?
geppy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 10:19 PM   #25
geppy
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raping James Toney
Posts: 2,398
vCash: 2166
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaDWAXTAsQw[/ame]



Gold Medal international 2003 Judo World champion, used as a tomato can for Brock Lesnars pro debut. Lesnar had him down in 8 seconds flat, you can check the clock.
geppy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 11:15 PM   #26
Matt Ldn
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NSW via Leeds/London
Posts: 1,940
vCash: 1885
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

There are also great olympic boxers who don't achieve in the pro ranks. Guys with great wrestling/judo/boxing backgroudns who don't do well in MMA.

A great bjj practioner with even worse record than any of those guys does that tell you anything about BJJ? [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Jacques_Machado[/ame]
Matt Ldn is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 11:29 PM   #27
geppy
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raping James Toney
Posts: 2,398
vCash: 2166
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Ldn View Post
There are also great olympic boxers who don't achieve in the pro ranks. Guys with great wrestling/judo/boxing backgroudns who don't do well in MMA.

A great bjj practioner with even worse record than any of those guys does that tell you anything about BJJ? [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Every one of them though! All of the Judo Olympic Gold medal champions and World champions that have fought in MMA has not done too well at all. The have had disasterous careers.

Almost any man with National level (U.S) amatuer wrestling credentials in MMA has been successful. We have yet to see a World champion level wrestler in MMA. Last place in Olympic wrestling is enough to take down and control pretty much anyone they want.
geppy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 11:30 PM   #28
Rob_Floyd
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,713
vCash: 847
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

It seems that a lot of judo guys fall in love with brawling and abandon their judo. They also seem to have a lot of natural power in their hands, so I guess it makes sense.

Rick Hawn in Bellator uses his judo well. He has learned that he hits really hard, so he uses it primarily defensively, but he is capable of this:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Rob_Floyd is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 11:40 PM   #29
geppy
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raping James Toney
Posts: 2,398
vCash: 2166
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_Floyd View Post
It seems that a lot of judo guys fall in love with brawling and abandon their judo. They also seem to have a lot of natural power in their hands, so I guess it makes sense.

Rick Hawn in Bellator uses his judo well. He has learned that he hits really hard, so he uses it primarily defensively, but he is capable of this:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Congratulations for displaying one nice judo throw. They are rare to see.That is very hard to execute. The black guy almost had his back after the bald guy threw that kick and fell, if he was a little quicker.
geppy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 12:17 AM   #30
Big Red
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,206
vCash: 1036
Default Re: Do you think Judo is somewhat a misused martial art in terms of MMA ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by geppy View Post
Every one of them though! All of the Judo Olympic Gold medal champions and World champions that have fought in MMA has not done too well at all. The have had disasterous careers.

Almost any man with National level (U.S) amatuer wrestling credentials in MMA has been successful. We have yet to see a World champion level wrestler in MMA. Last place in Olympic wrestling is enough to take down and control pretty much anyone they want.
Fedor was a Sambo player and Sambo came from Judo. Kano brought Judo to Russia and the Russians combined Judo with striking to make Sambo. The Gracies learned Judo submisons and made it into BJJ.
Big Red is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Other > MMA Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013