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Old 08-02-2012, 12:43 PM   #1
Stevie G
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Default Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

I'd just like to address a myth that seems to have sprung up over the last few years. It's regarding Ron Lyle's performance in his fight against Muhammad Ali. No disrespect to big Ron,whom I've always admired,but his challenge to Ali is overrated in some quarters. Yes...........He was ahead on the cards going into the eleventh round,but this was mainly because Muhammad was in one of his lazy moods,doing virtually nothing except for rope-a-dope and posing. In consequence,Lyle was totting up the points on workrate. Some have this image of him outclassing Ali,which was n't the case.

I also get quite appalled when the odd poster questions the fight being stopped. Lyle was defenceless at the time.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
I'd just like to address a myth that seems to have sprung up over the last few years. It's regarding Ron Lyle's performance in his fight against Muhammad Ali. No disrespect to big Ron,whom I've always admired,but his challenge to Ali is overrated in some quarters. Yes...........He was ahead on the cards going into the eleventh round,but this was mainly because Muhammad was in one of his lazy moods,doing virtually nothing except for rope-a-dope and posing. In consequence,Lyle was totting up the points on workrate. Some have this image of him outclassing Ali,which was n't the case.
agree
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Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
I also get quite appalled when the odd poster questions the fight being stopped. Lyle was defenceless at the time.
not a very bad stoppage as far as i currently remember



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regarding this fight , i actually think that while it's true that ali was in 1 of his lazy mods , so was lyle . his per4mance in this fight is over8ed indeed , and actually poor . well , it was pathetic .

But then that was d usual per4mance of Ali . When exactly did he not fight like that ?


it was either a fixed fight , or , lyle took d rope-a-dope seriously and at times seemed like wanting 2 do it 2 ali . except , d ropes were not that loose that time , ali was not drugged , and what about d weather ?
And neither did Ali fight like 4man .
Suppose d fight was not fixt , Lyle was still effected by Ali&Mirena's cheat in Zaire . So d Zaire cheat effected not just d outcome in Zaire , but also every stupid man including Lyle and d posters here .
That is what happens 2 a stupid man who takes d rope-a-dope seriously , don't try this at home !

It is also worth mentioning that while Ali was past his prime by then , he was still 1 year younger than Lyle .
And while Lyle probably did not start "boxing" until a late age , he had his prime deprived of him in jail , whereas Ali had his layoff .
So neither man was like those who started "boxing" at 12 and fought until they were 45 .
And Ali was still d younger man .
most probably feel like 1 year is unimportant .
But think what if it was d Lyle of 1973 fighting vs d Ali of 1975 .
Admittedly Lyle fought a stupid fight against Quarry as well , tried 2 box as well . But there is d opposite myth , where Quarry's per4mance is vastly over8ed as if he gave Lyle a beating in that fight , which he did not .

Last edited by frankenfrank; 08-02-2012 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
agree

not a very bad stoppage



////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

regarding this fight , i actually think that while it's true that ali was in 1 of his lazy mods , so was lyle . his per4mance in this fight is over8ed indeed , and actually poor . well , it was pathetic .
it was either a fixed fight , or , lyle took d rope-a-dope seriously and at times seemed like wanting 2 do it 2 ali . except , d ropes were not that loose that time , ali was not drugged , and what about d weather ?
And neither did Ali fight like 4man .
Suppose d fight was not fixt , Lyle was still effected by Ali&Mirena's cheat in Zaire . So d Zaire cheat effected not just d outcome in Zaire , but also every stupid man including Lyle and d posters here .
That is what happens 2 a stupid man who takes d rope-a-dope seriously , don't try this at home !

It is also worth mentioning that while Ali was past his prime by then , he was still 1 year younger than Lyle .
And while Lyle probably did not start "boxing" until a late age , he had his prime deprived of him in jail , whereas Ali had his layoff .
So neither man was like those who started "boxing" at 12 and fought until they were 45 .
And Ali was still d younger man .
most probably feel like 1 year is unimportant .
But think what if it was d Lyle of 1973 fighting vs d Ali of 1975 .
Admittedly Lyle fought a stupid fight against Quarry as well , tried 2 box as well . But there is d opposite myth , where Quarry's per4mance is vastly over8ed as if he gave Lyle a beating in that fight , which he did not .

There was no substantial difference in Lyle between the years of 1973/75 Frank. In the Quarry fight,Lyle's camp probably thought Quarry was finished. I agree with you that Quarry's performance in that fight is overstated. A clear victory but hardly an overwhelming one.

Last edited by Stevie G; 08-02-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

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Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
There was no substantial difference in Lyle between the years of 1973/75 Frank. In the Quarry fight,Lyle's camp probably thought Quarry was finished. I agree with you that Quarry's performance in that fight is overstated. A clear victory but hardly and overwhelming one.
not a clear victory but n even fight where both underper4med .

They like mocking 2day's division , but d only difference between a 2012 HW fight and d Quarry-Lyle fight is d little extra dancing that Quarry and Lyle did .
If that makes it a higher level fight then so b it , every1 who thinks so should watch artistic ice skating , that is more him .
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
not a clear victory but n even fight where both underper4med .

They like mocking 2day's division , but d only difference between a 2012 HW fight and d Quarry-Lyle fight is d little extra dancing that Quarry and Lyle did .
If that makes it a higher level fight then so b it , every1 who thinks so should watch artistic ice skating , that is more him .

It's a long time since I've watched this fight actually. I'll give it another look over the next couple of days.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

Yes, Ali was **** in this fight. Apart from one very good right hand that caused Lyle to turn to jelly.
Lyle couldn't take that punch and didn't know what to do.

An awful fight.
A compelling piece of evidence for "Overrated 70s heavyweights" theory.
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:08 PM   #7
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

yes , Ali was **** in this fight and in other fights just as well , and Lyle was **** in this fight and in other fights , and Quarry was **** vs Lyle and in other fights .

D HW division's peak was around d 1990s , when left elbow did his time , d head still did not use his head that much , Tua & McCall ruled d world but were usually avoided by d superstars (primadonas) , Lewis wreaked havoc (as long as he avoided d biggest threats) , Corrie Sanders was on d background , as well as many others such as Chris Byrd , Ross Puritty , Henry Akinwande and others .

And when d 1990s ended it was far from d end of d good times , with rising under8ed prospects such as Dominick Guinn , Joe Mesi , Jameel McCline , Michael Grant , d Klitschkos , Valuev and yet others on d rise .
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

May 10, 1975 (Convention Center, Las Vegas)

Ron Lyle was 'workmanlike' in this fight, but pretty much fought a notch 'below'
his capabilites.

Cleary Ron was ahead in this bout, but Muhammad Ali also did very little throughout,
except for a few flurries in 'selected' rounds.

Lets not forget, that Mr. Lyle was 34 years-old, and was coming off a February 11, 1975
embarrassing loss to 'Little' Jimmy Young in Hawaii.

Before the bout, Muhammad Ali stated that he was going to attack Lyle like a
'Sherman Tank', which was a straight-ahead charge to wear him down.

Lyle on the other hand, said he would fight at a 'slow-pace', and not waste any punches.

Their ring performance was like they said. And it looked like they were fighting 'underwater'.

A good thing for Muhammad Ali that the Referee Ferd Hernandez stopped the bout, as the Champion was
arm-weary at the time of the stoppage.

(Below) Champion Muhammad Ali reels after getting tagged by a 34 year-old Ron Lyle left hook.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 08-02-2012 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 08-02-2012, 04:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

The thing that kills me about this fight is the scoring. I believe at the time of the stoppage, one judge had Lyle solidly ahead but the other 2 judges had it virtually even.

This was a clear instance of judges being swayed by the legendary Ali myth. I agree this was a dull fight but at least Lyle was working his arms occasionally and supplied the only "action" through the 1st 10 rounds. Ali did virtually nothing at all except the stupid rope-a-dope and clowning yet 2 judges saw the fight as close. Amazing.

I have to admit though that people don't give Ali enough credit for that right hand that stunned Lyle in the 11th. It was a picture perfect right-on-the-button shot that he threw. It was no disgrace for Lyle being stunned by that right. Ali KO'd George Foreman with a similar punch and he badly hurt Joe Frazier with a similar punch in their 2nd fight. Even though he's not regarded as a puncher, Ali could occasionally uncork a killer right.
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Old 08-02-2012, 04:45 PM   #10
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

Yeah, it was a brilliant punch from Ali.

Ron Lyle did quite well for a guy who really didn't have good credentials going in.
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Old 08-02-2012, 05:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

Ron Lyle,

One tough dude,,,,,,,,,but Oh So Slow

A shame we never had a Ron Lyle vs.
* Ken Norton (1974)
* Earnie Shavers II (1976) in Ohio
* Duane Bobick (1976)

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 08-02-2012 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:47 PM   #12
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Ron Lyle,

One tough dude,,,,,,,,,but Oh So Slow

A shame we never had a Ron Lyle vs.
* Ken Norton (1974)
* Earnie Shavers II (1975)
* Duane Bobick (1976)
Many pundits think Lyle would beat Norton, given the ''Ken can't fight when backpeddling." IMO Lyle didn't have the skills to take out Ken. A late round stoppage IMO.
Lyle-Earnie did fight in 76 in Denver and Ron finally put the ''gassed'' Earnie out at the beginning of the 6th.
Note: Everyone talks about the great Earnie right hand bomb (a given!) but how about that left hook he nailed Lyle with at the VERY end of round two?
Frazier? Patterson? Cooper? etc...Wasn't Earnie's LH just as potent if not more so?
Bobick? I'm sorry but the wannabe Duane goes out fairly quickly.
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

.....frankenfrank....i have no comment on the lyle/ali fight....but please save your texting style for your high school friends and use complete words here for the adults.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:24 AM   #14
Stevie G
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

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Originally Posted by jowcol View Post
Many pundits think Lyle would beat Norton, given the ''Ken can't fight when backpeddling." IMO Lyle didn't have the skills to take out Ken. A late round stoppage IMO.
Lyle-Earnie did fight in 76 in Denver and Ron finally put the ''gassed'' Earnie out at the beginning of the 6th.
Note: Everyone talks about the great Earnie right hand bomb (a given!) but how about that left hook he nailed Lyle with at the VERY end of round two?
Frazier? Patterson? Cooper? etc...Wasn't Earnie's LH just as potent if not more so?
Bobick? I'm sorry but the wannabe Duane goes out fairly quickly.

Lyle-Norton - A 50/50 one. Lyle early. Norton late.
Lyle-Shavers II - probably a repeat victory for Ron.
Lyle-Bobick - Lyle stops Bobick early.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:13 AM   #15
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Default Re: Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

May 16, 1975

Before Referee - Ferd Hernandez (non-scoring referee) stopped this bout at 1:08 of the
11th Round.

Scorecards;
* Judge -Bill Kipp..................49-43 (7-1-2 in Rounds) - Ron Lyle
* Judge - Art Lurie................46-45 (5-4-1 in Rounds) - Ron Lyle
* Judge - John Mangriciana.....46-46 (4-4-2 in Rounds) - EVEN

Of course, nothing was better than Chickie Ferrara going crazy on the Referee - Ferd
Hernandez after the stoppage.

Especially the interview, when the 'little' Italian Trainer told Howard Cosell about the quick stoppage,
'That wasn't Kosher'.

Should it have been stopped. Muhammad Ali did throw '30' unanswered punches on an
'obviously stunned' Ron Lyle, who was backed into the corner by the Champion, but
Lyle was upright and Ali was 'gassed'.

The obvious answer.

Don King and Muhammad Ali already had a good portion of the money for the upcoming bout
versus Joe Bugner in Malaysia, set for June 30, 1975 (7-weeks later).

No way was Ron Lyle winning that fight. No way !

You figure it out.

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 08-03-2012 at 09:55 AM.
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