Ketchel v Langford: 1910 20 rounds for the MW title.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Ketchel was an opium addict by 1910 ,he also had syphilis .There are tales of fighters being paid to take it easy on him by then.Wilson Mizner ,[who took over as Ketchel's manager after Willus Britt died] is supposed to have paid Frank Klaus to go easy in their fight.Even if the tales of fighters being paid to take it easy are just apocryphal,being a druggie and, having syph would indicate that you are definitey not at your best,or would you not agree?

what I'm saying is, I don't believe it to beyond the realm of possibility that ketchel (had he not been murdered) could have returned to top form hence proved a match for langford at 160.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

what I'm saying is, I don't believe it to beyond the realm of possibility that ketchel (had he not been murdered) could have returned to top form hence proved a match for langford at 160.

Do you then concede he was slipping ,as I originally stated?

I think he may have come back, though by 1910 Mizner was continually looking for and finding him drunk in brothels.
I doubt strongly that he could have recovered his form, he was a poor trainer at the best of times.
I think Sam would beat him in an honest fight.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Do you then concede he was slipping ,as I originally stated?

I think he may have come back, though by 1910 Mizner was continually looking for and finding him drunk in brothels.
I doubt strongly that he could have recovered his form, he was a poor trainer at the best of times.
I think Sam would beat him in an honest fight.

This is becoming an issue of semantics here.

I don't disagree with anything you've said though.

The only I disagree with is the notion that it's a foregone conclusion that his slip would continue and thus should be the deciding factor when considering this matchup.

[he grant]

The best Langford , fighting w handcuffs off, crushes the best Ketchel early.

[burt bienstock]

It must be remembered thar when Ketchel fought Langford in April, 191o, Stanley Ketchel weighed about 12 pounds LESS than Langford did... and that is a lot of weight to
spot a 172 pound immortal like Langford...A nd Ketchel was a shot fighter by this time,
on opium and drinking dissipation, so much so he was forced to try to 'recuperate' by a friend's ranch in Missouri, where he met his tragic end shot in the back by a jealous
farmhand Walter Dipley, just 6 months after his fight with Sam Langford...
So, would the 160 pound version of Langford beat the prime Ketchel of 1908 when
Stanislaus was the terror of the MW division ? I have Ketchel a 7-5 favorite over a 160 pound Langford at 160 or less...But P4P I have the much bigger framed Boston Tar Baby...

[LittleRed]

Wasn't middleweight 158 in that era?

[janitor]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

did the rematch ever come close to being made?

Tantalisingly close.

It would almost certainly have happened had Ketchel not been murdered.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by janitor

Tantalisingly close.

It would almost certainly have happened had Ketchel not been murdered.

And what do you think the odds were of stan sorting himself out and returning back to form?

Given 8 month and a warm up fight against papke I think he could have got back to peak.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

And what do you think the odds were of stan sorting himself out and returning back to form?

Given 8 month and a warm up fight against papke I think he could have got back to peak.

Hard to say. Some scholars of Ketchel think that he was on the cusp of a very steep decline, but he clearly still had big ambitions.

He was looking at a fight with Sam McVea amongst other things.

It is a tragedy of history, that one of the key fighters who was willing to give black contenders a chance, was taken from us early.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by janitor

Hard to say. Some scholars of Ketchel think that he was on the cusp of a very steep decline, but he clearly still had big ambitions.

He was looking at a fight with Sam McVea amongst other things.

It is a tragedy of history, that one of the key fighters who was willing to give black contenders a chance, was taken from us early.

I'm not sure we'll ever know the truth on this matter ya know.