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Old 08-03-2012, 12:46 PM   #1
UncleDenny
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Default Tyson Holyfield

Lets say that in 1990 Tyson barely escapes Douglas with a win, does an undefeated Tyson get past Holyfield? I tend to think a comeback Tyson would have a better chance.
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

by 1991 I'd favour holyfield all the way.

Had Holy got a shot in say 88/89 I'd favour Tyson.
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:29 PM   #3
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

Holyfield was coming off a closely contended war with Michal Dokes. He was still a green heavyweight at this stage, his toughest fight being a close SD with the small, fat light-heavy, Dwight Braxton. Tyson was still a competitive fighter post-Douglas pre-Prison, watch him against Ruddock for proof. I think it would be very close. And if Tyson didn't neglect the body of Holy and kept the movement I think he could pull it off. Cooper almost did Holyfield in so I think Tyson at this stage could.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

A very good question, and friend and I have went back and forth on this over the years..

Growing up with HBO and as Mike Tyson fans we had a front row seat for the ride, being that dad also had Showtime I got to see Holyfields rise through the ranks of Heavyweight as well.. I was a teenager in the early days of Tyson and Holyfield.. I still remember one of my friends when I would talk about Holyfield he would always say oh the "Showtime" heavyweight (lol he was just pist his parents wouldn't pay for showtime network)

I was also lucky that dad got a VCR way back (one of the first ones you could get your hands on) and taped everything including Boxing.. He is the reason I have many of the older fights in such pristine quality, after about 86 or so I took the reins and taped everything for the next 20 years or so.. I am left with an unbelievable collection of fights in a room containing somewhere around 50 plastic totes full of VHS tapes that I rarely watch since the VCR is a dinosaur now in the world of technology.. It just seems wrong to hook it up to my beautiful HDTV since everything runs hdmi and what not rca seems a dead technology (one is hooked up since I do get the itch on occasion) I fear more then anything my old VCR might act up and eat a tape or something.. So off topic here but anyone here care to hit me up with what they feel would be the best way of converting all these fights over to todays technology?? My son (16) says I should move them all to hard drives... Any suggestions would be amazing..

Sorry guys, back on topic...

My friend is convinced Tyson from 86-89 beats any version of Holyfield..
I am convinced that this Tyson has the best chance but nothing to me is for sure.. He and I had talked about the Holyfield that fought Foreman vs the Tyson that fought Ruddock.. This Holyfield still moved well and was quicker and fresher then the 96 version that beat Tyson,..... But this Holyfield also always seemed to go to war when tagged.. Only after losing to Bowe in the first bowe-holyfield fight did Holyfield really use a gameplan and stick to it for twelve rounds.. I still feel as thought the second Holyfield-Bowe fight may be Evanders best performance ever..

I sometimes convince myself that Holyfield just had Tysons number.. Some fighter just matchup well against other fighters.. Styles make fights, thats why Tyson will always smoke out Alex Stewart in 1 and Holyfield will struggle against him.. But then other times I think 80's Tyson could beat damn near anyone ever..

To answer the question posed here, if Tyson somehow beats Douglas I'd still pick Holyfield here, Tyson at this point I think was on his way down, and Holyfield was hungry and on the way up.. Now if we are talking Tyson of the Biggs or maybe Spinks fight I think ill go with Tyson vs maybe any version of Holyfield but again I am not certain.. Its crazy to since at his age Tyson should still be peak in 90 but mentally I think he had become tired of boxing.. I have seen him say in interviews that his career really ended in 90 after the loss to Douglas which is interesting since he still fought at such a high level..

I have also stated before that the 96 version of Holyfield though clearly not in his prime may have been the best one to beat Tyson.. He was such a grinder at that point in his career, he'd tie you up, butt you, smash you on the inside with uppercuts very physical.. He knew how to rest in the ring at that point and what I took to win.. Early Holyfield wents balls out all night with his insane conditioning and just broke your will, maybe that works against Tyson maybe it gets you knocked the hell out who knows. Anyway great question which will continue to be debated forever is my guess...
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:41 PM   #5
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

The real question to be considered here; is Tyson more dangerous as an undefeated fighter still with that aura of invincibility, yet on the decline, or is it the comeback Tyson, defeated, yet perhaps hungrier than ever to reclaim the title.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

"IF" Tyson was good enough to beat Douglas he would have been a different fighter in 1990 than he actually was. A tough WIN against Douglas might have made him get back on track for a challenge from Holyfield.

Likewise, we can't take Holyfield's close shaves with Cooper et al. as much of an indication of how he approaches a fight with Tyson. He took Cooper for granted. He would raise him gamefor Tyson .


It could go either way.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

I agree with Legend X that' it's a pretty tenuous thing to draw any parallels with Cooper and Tyson. Should any actual weight be applied to that argument, Holyfield would never have beaten ANY version of Tyson.

Holy beats Tyson of 90-91, just as he beat him a few years later. Styles and mentality make the difference here.
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

Tyson win or lose to Douglass still beats Holy in 91,
and Holys one of my favorite fighters, but Evander wouldn't
Be able to hurt Mike, and once Holy s heart gets in the way
and he starts brawling he gets smoked. I think if Tyson had
beat Douglass in the 8th round, Mikey boy bombs out Holy
in 5 his power, chin, and speed when he used it was still
staggering. If its reality Tyson loses to Douglass, the holy
Fight would resemble the ruddock bout, with Holy
getting stopped late but putting on a commendable
performance. I think its great that Holy and Tyson
Remain friends to this day. A month or 2 ago on
Friday night fights it was the anniversary of the bite
fight, and they showd Mike and Evanders tweets,
hysterical. Evander saying something about his new
bbq sauce that he was manufacturing/promoting
and Mike saying he bet it would taste good on an ear,
but Holy was like "love ya mike see you around".
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:25 PM   #9
Bonecrusher
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
"IF" Tyson was good enough to beat Douglas he would have been a different fighter in 1990 than he actually was. A tough WIN against Douglas might have made him get back on track for a challenge from Holyfield.

Likewise, we can't take Holyfield's close shaves with Cooper et al. as much of an indication of how he approaches a fight with Tyson. He took Cooper for granted. He would raise him gamefor Tyson .


It could go either way.

Yeah he was fighting at home in Atlanta against Cooper and went in to destroy him and got caught.. Cooper can really swat hard so its no black mark in my view to be stunned by him. But still he wouldn't have went at Tyson like that..
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:29 PM   #10
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

Standing in front of Tyson even in 1990-1991 was a mistake. Holyfield would have done just that. When Tyson lost to Douglass, he may have been on the decline. However Douglass fought a real smart fight.
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

One thing is for certain. Pre-prison Tyson was better in every way than post-prison Tyson. Therefore, Tyson-Holyfield would have been a much rougher tougher and more competitive war for Holyfield. Whether the ultimate outcome would have been different is impossible to know. I agree that even the version of Tyson that fought Ruddock was pretty darn good, WAY better than post-prison Tyson.
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by ripcity View Post
Standing in front of Tyson even in 1990-1991 was a mistake. Holyfield would have done just that. When Tyson lost to Douglass, he may have been on the decline. However Douglass fought a real smart fight.

Why would you assume he'd do anything differently compared to his 1996 effort, and get inside Tyson's wild swings the way he did? It worked beautifully.
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:49 PM   #13
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

I actually have a hat that I bought from the boxing hall of fame that reads "Tyson vs Holyfield" for the heavyweight championship of the world in Caesers palace. It was when they were supposed to fight in 91 but tyson had a rib injury and then went to prison. however the Tyson that beat Ruddock would **** up holyfield. Not to sound repetitive but earlier posts about how young holyfield had a tendency to brawl when it wasn't in his best interest was a big factor if the fight was made at this time. Tyson was in great shape under Giachetti he lost form but he still was fast, devastating puncher who was still somewhat elusive and didn't neglect body punching. I see it being a tenacious war but Holyfield getting stopped in around 7 or 8
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by apollack View Post
One thing is for certain. Pre-prison Tyson was better in every way than post-prison Tyson. Therefore, Tyson-Holyfield would have been a much rougher tougher and more competitive war for Holyfield.
Not necessarily.
People seem to forget that Holyfield was pretty much finished by 1996 himself. He'd been through most of his wars already by that time. He was 'an old 34' and had looked 'dangerously damaged goods' in some of his previous fights.
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:32 PM   #15
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Default Re: Tyson Holyfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Not necessarily.
People seem to forget that Holyfield was pretty much finished by 1996 himself. He'd been through most of his wars already by that time. He was 'an old 34' and had looked 'dangerously damaged goods' in some of his previous fights.
Yes, Holyfield was younger and friskier in the early 90s, valid point, but I think that gets counteracted by his far superior experience against elite opposition during those years, including against some very hard punchers, which made him fight sharp, as opposed to Tyson, who was sitting on the shelf for nearly four years, and then had only a few very short and almost noncompetitive bouts prior to Holy. Plus, there is a very big factor that some might be overlooking, which is that Holy in the early 90s was smaller, but the Holy that fought Tyson was a rock solid 218 and quite frankly looked like he was on something.
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