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Old 08-04-2012, 06:22 PM   #16
jdempsey85
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

Gary newbon asked steve collins but he would not reveal the trick.

It should be on youtube.the days of our lives
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

floyd pattersons gazzel punch has to be the most powerful shot ever, every time he landed with it, the guy got lifted off the floor, ala archie moore.
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:48 PM   #18
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

If you improve technique and practice throwing with power and high velocity with your weight behind your punches your punching will improve and you will hit harder. If you get stronger you will hit harder. You do have genetic limitations ofcourse. It's not rocket science, it is punch science
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:26 PM   #19
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

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Originally Posted by MrBumboclart View Post
punching power has always confused me. at first i figured you could build it, just like strength, a skinny kid could sweat and bleed into a powerlifting monster, so a featherfisted puncher could develope into a heavy handed slugger. however i now doubt it. mainly because a lot of gym rats have very unimpressive punching power and a lot of guys known for laying off the hard training (tyson, ketchel, foreman in his youth) all had sickening power. i mean compare holyfield and tyson - who trained harder? who hit harder? compare tim bradley and maidana - who trains harder? who hits harder? i think, for some unexplainable reason, probably to do with tendons, kinetic chains, transferring power in certain ways, that some dudes can hit hard and other cant. you cant TRAIN julian jackson power, thats for damn sure
Great Points MrBumboclart! Comparing Maidana and Bradley is a great example. Tim Bradley is built like a goddamn tank but is only a mediocre puncher. Maidana is skinny and not that muscular but that guy can ****ing crack! Dempsey's championship fighting taught me how to really get good torque on my punches. Four ways to transfer weight in to punches are springing forward like a jab, falling forward with a right hand jolt, shoulder and back whirl with hooks and surging upward with uppercuts. I agree with Cus D'amato its the aptitude or the potential to be a power puncher that you're born with. You dont come out of your mothers' woom ready to knock people out. After you learn good form some people are gonna just hit much harder than others. Dempsey is modest but he was born a ferocious puncher, he just had to learn form first. Some people just have that crazy gorilla power.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:30 AM   #20
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Benny leonard started his career as a very fast boxer devoid of punching power , but developed in his second career into a great accurate two-handed puncher... so did Tommy Hearns start his amateur career as a tall boxer but soon developed as a pro
into a murderous two handed puncher....Timing, timing, timing, and accuracy can be developed...
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

Yes it can be built. I hit harder now then I did a year ago. The pop on the bag and the mitts sound more thudding, and I can feel it too. In fact my hands get a little more sore and need to use extra gauze. I'm sitting down on my punches a lot more, getting my legs, hips, and shoulders more into the punch, and also whipping my shoulders and hips through and back faster than I used too. I'm also turning my punches over more too. Punching power can definitely be developed...but there are also natural punchers and guys that will improve their power but never be considered big punchers.
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:31 PM   #22
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

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Steve collins said in a interview recently on sky's the days of our lives program floyd showed him a trick and his ko percentage went through the roof.
Stepin Fetchit taught Clay his anchor punch that he knocked out Liston with.

Maybe Floyd Paterson picked it up from him too.
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:20 PM   #23
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

It all comes to perfect kinetics and mechanics. Ie; technique. Leg, shoulder and core strength help too.

BORKED
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:39 PM   #24
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
If you improve technique and practice throwing with power and high velocity with your weight behind your punches your punching will improve and you will hit harder. If you get stronger you will hit harder. You do have genetic limitations ofcourse. It's not rocket science, it is punch science
True, but at the end of the day some guys can hone their technique to perfection and just don't seem to have great power.

Today a guy like Ward puts a lot of leverage into shots and he just doesn't seem to do a lot of damage. Ward can slap a little sometimes, though, but when puts quite a bit into shots that don't move guys. Someone like Abraham can wing shots from left field and throw half assed arm punches that do more damage.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:41 PM   #25
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

Has nothing to do with weightlifting and muscles really. Yes, getting stronger can help but can also hinder your mechanics. That's why a slapper like Bradley will never punch well. He gets leverage but if he wants to get off shots quickly its a quick slap really.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:03 AM   #26
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Benny leonard started his career as a very fast boxer devoid of punching power , but developed in his second career into a great accurate two-handed puncher... so did Tommy Hearns start his amateur career as a tall boxer but soon developed as a pro
into a murderous two handed puncher....Timing, timing, timing, and accuracy can be developed...


Right on. Specially on Benny Leonard's case. The scarce footage available on him shows how much his accuracy and timing made him dangerous, even when he was a chubby and old like on the first round of the McLarnin fight where he almost drop Jimmy (who was no glass-jaw). Arguello also mentioned that he would pick precision over power any day. Another case that makes me wonder is Louis. Is frequently said that the faded version of Louis 'lost his power' while we always hear that the last thing to leave an old fighter is 'his punch' (Archie or old Foreman are good examples). While is true that the Bomber doesn't bomb as much in his last fights, is also quite noticeable that his timing is off, while the change in his build is not as noticeable as you'd expect for his level of degradation. What I mean is that it's possible that the maybe greatest puncher in the history of the sport was rendered almost useless punch-wise without an aspect that is more related to his technique than to his physical tools.
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:47 AM   #27
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

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True, but at the end of the day some guys can hone their technique to perfection and just don't seem to have great power.

Today a guy like Ward puts a lot of leverage into shots and he just doesn't seem to do a lot of damage. Ward can slap a little sometimes, though, but when puts quite a bit into shots that don't move guys. Someone like Abraham can wing shots from left field and throw half assed arm punches that do more damage.
Wlad hit with plenty of power. In fact, when he does throw them hard and clean, he knocks them out with as much power as anyone.

He is going to have difficulty, obviously matching the power of a guy like Tyson, Fitzsimmons, Marciano or even Tua, because he stands upright most of the time and cant get his body and legs behind his punches, like those guys did. Also he fights at range, which makes it harder to land the straight punches, particularly when with his reach advantage he is trying to keep them on the end of his jab, rather than let them close range so he can unload a straight right or shorter hook, with his body fully behind it.

Wlad, as opposed to Vitali, also tends to fight with a higher guard, which also decreases power as a general rule. In saying that, i think Wlad probably has the best long range hook/Swing i have ever seen.

The question is really as to whether size and strength advantages that Wlad holds over many ATG's is enough to offset the better balanced punches from smaller fighters who put their weight behind it. I think the real answer is that as a general rule he doesnt hit as hard, but when he does land clean, with better tming and technique, it probably does hit as hard or harder than these guys.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:56 AM   #28
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

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Right on. Specially on Benny Leonard's case. The scarce footage available on him shows how much his accuracy and timing made him dangerous, even when he was a chubby and old like on the first round of the McLarnin fight where he almost drop Jimmy (who was no glass-jaw). Arguello also mentioned that he would pick precision over power any day. Another case that makes me wonder is Louis. Is frequently said that the faded version of Louis 'lost his power' while we always hear that the last thing to leave an old fighter is 'his punch' (Archie or old Foreman are good examples). While is true that the Bomber doesn't bomb as much in his last fights, is also quite noticeable that his timing is off, while the change in his build is not as noticeable as you'd expect for his level of degradation. What I mean is that it's possible that the maybe greatest puncher in the history of the sport was rendered almost useless punch-wise without an aspect that is more related to his technique than to his physical tools.
Yes,Joe Louis when past his glorious peak, would say " I see the target, but i couldn't pull the trigger in time "...So timing is a big factor as a great puncher...
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:30 AM   #29
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
Wlad hit with plenty of power. In fact, when he does throw them hard and clean, he knocks them out with as much power as anyone.
I think he meant Andre Ward not Wlad

Anyway I agree with Dempsey. Sure certain people have more of an aptitude for punching but punchers aren't simply born one has to learn to maximize their power through timing, technique etc.
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:04 PM   #30
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey's view on punching power/hard punchers?

When Bruno Walter was asked whether conductors are born or made, he said you've got to be born a conductor, then you've got to be made a conductor.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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