Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-08-2012, 04:54 AM   #106
Legend X
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 2,378
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Legend X is on point.
Thanks.

I'm probably getting a little too involved but I find it baffling that so many postors on here who spend hours explaining how historical fighters are too 'unproven' to favour in h2h fights suddenly turn around and change the standards for David Haye.

.... because they like the way he glistens 'on film' no doubt.
Legend X is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-08-2012, 04:56 AM   #107
Stevie G
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London,England
Posts: 9,276
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I realy can't agree there.

Bugner at his best could be a handfull for prety much anybody. I don't think Ali had an easy time with him.

If he turned up on his best form, he would bring too much to the table for Haye.

Quite on the mark ! Bugner,when up for it,would beat Haye quite handily on points.
Stevie G is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 05:05 AM   #108
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,740
vCash: 330
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Thanks.

I'm probably getting a little too involved but I find it baffling that so many postors on here who spend hours explaining how historical fighters are too 'unproven' to favour in h2h fights suddenly turn around and change the standards for David Haye.

.... because they like the way he glistens 'on film' no doubt.
Which fighter have I said is unproven?

Again there's no right or wrong here. For instance would it have been wrong to favour tyson over douglas? Or would it have been wrong to predict an upset?

Unless you come up with a time machine and make these fights happen, you pretty much just have to agree to disagree.

Fyi it was bolt who won btw. Second fastest time in history I think they said.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 05:13 AM   #109
Legend X
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 2,378
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Which fighter have I said is unproven?
Not directed at you in particular.
Just generally, the better postors here understand that h2h fantasy fight predictions need to at least have some sort of reference point ie. they need to be grounded in actual proven ability.

When it comes to "h2h lists" it's even more necessary to base it on actual proven ability, because it's how the fighters would do 'against the whole field'.


Quote:
Again there's no right or wrong here. For instance would it have been wrong to favour tyson over douglas? Or would it have been wrong to predict an upset?
I don't know where you're coming from.
Do you put Douglas above Tyson on an all-time h2h list ?
Does anyone ?


Quote:
Unless you come up with a time machine and make these fights happen, you pretty much just have to agree to disagree.
Yeah.
Legend X is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 05:14 AM   #110
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlFrancis View Post
Just out of curiosity, how do you think Haye would of went against Ali or Louis or Frazier?
He'd lose, although be competitive with Louis and Frazier. He 's similar in ways to Schmelling/Walcott with his counter punching and big right so that wouldn't be an easy match up for Louis. I could see him knocking Frazier down early but being stopped late
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 05:25 AM   #111
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,740
vCash: 330
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Not directed at you in particular.
Just generally, the better postors here understand that h2h fantasy fight predictions need to at least have some sort of reference point ie. they need to be grounded in actual proven ability.

When it comes to "h2h lists" it's even more necessary to base it on actual proven ability, because it's how the fighters would do 'against the whole field'.




I don't know where you're coming from.
Do you put Douglas above Tyson on an all-time h2h list ?
Does anyone ?




Yeah.
Well the reference point is what film you can get your hands on.

And in this particular field I pick haye over them all bar lewis.

No but if asked to pick a winner prime-prime i'd pick douglas over tyson no doubt.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 05:40 AM   #112
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlFrancis View Post
Ruiz hadn't beat a ranked fighter since 2004
Many thought he won the Valuev rematch, the Valuev and Chageav fights were all close
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 05:47 AM   #113
Legend X
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 2,378
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Many thought he won the Valuev rematch
Which only adds to how discredited Valuev had become by the time Haye got round to fighting him.
Legend X is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 05:54 AM   #114
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,195
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Many thought he won the Valuev rematch, the Valuev and Chageav fights were all close
Chagaev wasn't close man. You need to watch it.
McGrain is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 05:59 AM   #115
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,740
vCash: 330
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Chagaev wasn't close man. You need to watch it.
Did you follow his career all the way from the am's?
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 06:12 AM   #116
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Yes, boxrec does not tell the whole story. Like how Sprott was low blowed into oblivion in their second fight.
I thought the 3rd fight was a fair decision.

Williams wasn't much better than Sprott.

Haye isn't "harder to hit" than Bugner or Farr. he's only hard to hit when he completely shuts down his offense and backpedals. He takes jabs in the face from plodders like ancient Ruiz.

It's not just "who has he beat?", it's ... How many men has he even fought who were actual deserving top 10 HW contenders in this era ?
Guys like Barrett and Harrison weren't even contenders in his own time.
I don't think Ruiz was deserving of a top 10 place in 2010.
Even Valuev had arguably become a borderline case.
BS if you did watch it you'd be pretty alone in having it to Sprott, everyone had it to Williams

Valuev and Ruiz aren't greats but were 2 of the best contenders of the last 10 years, Valuev maybe slightly past prime, Ruiz a little past his best too. Both had been fighting decent comp coming in and Ruiz hadn't been dominated like that since the Jones fight

Chisora was prime and had just taken 4 rounds off Vitali and beaten Helenius, this isn't far off Farr's achievements in itself

Mormeck was the lineal cruser champion, it's different times and beating and unifying a division is a big achievement

So you're agreed Haye is quicker and hits harder. As for defence neither Farr or Bugner, were that hard to hit, Haye is hard to hit when countering/pot shotting, against great jabbers he can be hit clean but most can be.

Again who did Farr and Bugner actually outright beat? Farr has a significantly past prime Baer and the rest are domestic crusers. Budger's best win is Past prime Cooper or shot Ellis or Mac Foster and he couldn't beat Ron Lyle
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 06:16 AM   #117
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Joe Louis was one of the quickest heavyweights of all-time. Only Ali, Patterson, maybe Tyson, were quicker.
.
Haye has a quicker jab and maybe a quicker lead right. Louis has the quicker combinations, shorter punches. On the outside Haye is probably quicker, at mid range and inside Louis is quicker
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 06:26 AM   #118
thistle1
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,099
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

fighters ARE, and can, and should be regarded for excellent perfomances against other Great or TOP fighters even in a LOSS!!!

that's one of the thing that pisses me off about forums and blogs, too many people suit themselves...how many fighters ARE mentioned and given such credit when it suits one's post, but then some of these same people won't credit other fighters the same merit(???).

Farr & Bugner ARE better than Haye, and this is seen not only in who they met, but yes even in the same lossing effort against such!!!
thistle1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 06:34 AM   #119
Legend X
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 2,378
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
BS if you did watch it you'd be pretty alone in having it to Sprott, everyone had it to Williams
I can't remember it being bad. But maybe I'm just not interested. Williams was domestic-level only.


Quote:
Valuev and Ruiz aren't greats but were 2 of the best contenders of the last 10 years, Valuev maybe slightly past prime, Ruiz a little past his best too. Both had been fighting decent comp coming in and Ruiz hadn't been dominated like that since the Jones fight

They had NOT been fighting decent competition coming in.
Ruiz had Adnan Serin as his only recent opponent.
Valuev had been lucky to beat 46 year old Holyfield, who most people thought would get killed.

Quote:
Chisora was prime and had just taken 4 rounds off Vitali and beaten Helenius, this isn't far off Farr's achievements in itself
Tommy Farr took 5 or 6 rounds from a prime Joe Louis.
Chisora fought a 40-year-old Vitali.
Farr beat Baer, Foord, Neusel, deserved the Braddock decision, and fought the best men out there.



Quote:
Again who did Farr and Bugner actually outright beat? Farr has a significantly past prime Baer and the rest are domestic crusers. Budger's best win is Past prime Cooper or shot Ellis or Mac Foster and he couldn't beat Ron Lyle
So Baer is "significantly past prime" when Farr beat him, but Ruiz "a little past his prime" when Haye beat him ?
Bugner beat more contenders and fringe contenders than Haye did, and he did better overall when he stepped up.
Legend X is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 07:06 AM   #120
Gesta
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,479
vCash: 300
Default Re: Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Tommy Farr should have run away from Joe Louis all night and blamed it on hurt toe.
He might have then got a better ranking.

Absolutely disgraceful list.

Gesta is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013