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Old 08-07-2012, 03:50 PM   #1
MMJoe
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Default How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

Joe Louis defending his title against 3-3 Johnny Davis.

Roberto Duran defending his lightweight title against 4-4 Alvaro Rojas.
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:01 PM   #2
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMJoe View Post
Joe Louis defending his title against 3-3 Johnny Davis.
This bout was originaly intended as an exhibition.

The State Athletic Comission refused to sanction it, unless the title was on the line.

The tickets had already been sold, so it went ahead as a title fight.
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

So in your mind MMJOe pretty much every modern 'title' fight is a complete travesty?
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMJoe View Post
Joe Louis defending his title against 3-3 Johnny Davis.

Roberto Duran defending his lightweight title against 4-4 Alvaro Rojas.

MM Joe,

I'll check the exact record of Alvaro Rojas.

Box/Rec 'does not' have all the complete records of many Latin and Oriental professional boxers.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

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Originally Posted by MMJoe View Post
Joe Louis defending his title against 3-3 Johnny Davis.

Roberto Duran defending his lightweight title against 4-4 Alvaro Rojas.
Just check Boxrec for gods sake. they only have those fights listed for Rojas. He was 26-4 and had held Antonio Gomez to a split decision.

Louis was touring for the army.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

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Originally Posted by LittleRed View Post
Just check Boxrec for gods sake. they only have those fights listed for Rojas. He was 26-4 and had held Antonio Gomez to a split decision.

Louis was touring for the army.
Despite the unusaul circumstances behind the Davis fight, I think that we do have to consider it to have been a title fight for historic purpouses.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

Be gone from this here forum, Joe.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

Alvaro Rojas

A Cuban boxer, who defected to Costa Rica in February 1971.

Was a 125 lb. Featherweight in the amateurs, compiling a 91-11 record.

A good boxer, who had a typical Central American style. Decent hand speed
with a smart jab, good footwork, and good boxing skills. Good defensively,
durable and with very good endurance.

Turned professional in San Jose, Costa Rica in July 1971, and over 3+ years compiled a 19-1-0 (9 KO's) record,
through November 1974 - before facing Miguel Riasco for the Central American Super Featherweight Championship.

December 21, 1974 - Won by Decision (W Dec 10) over Miguel Riasco, and entered the WBC Super-Featherweight
rankings at #9.

In his next bout (April 12, 1975), lost a 'Home-town Spilt-Decision' to Former WBA Featherweight Champion -
Antonio Gomez in Caracas, Venezuela, and fell to 20-2-0, and dropped to the #10 WBC Super-Featherweight.

On June 6, 1975 - In Costa Rica in his next bout, was 'upset', as he was 'Decisioned' (L Dec 10) by
Gustavo 'Peppermint' Farinas.

On June 27, 1975 - in a rematch in Costa Rica with Gustavo 'Peppermint' Farinas, won a 'Decision' (W Dec 10).

On August 1, 1975 - In a Lightweight bout, 'upset' former WBC Featherweight Champion -
Clemente Sanchez by 'Decision' (W Dec 10).

That victory improved Alvaro Rojas to 22-3-0 (9 KO's), and moved him into the #9 WBC Lightweight position.

The victory over Clemente Sanchez, earned Alvaro Rojas a 'shot' at the WBC Lightweight Championship.

Got a Lightweight Championship bout with Ishimatsu 'Guts' Suzuki in Japan (December 4, 1975).
Fought well for 11-Rounds, before getting worn down and stopped at the end of Round 14.

Following the loss to Ishimatsu 'Guts' Suzuki in December 1975, in 1976 went 4-0-0 (1 KO) with all his bouts
taking place in Costa Rica, moving to 26-4-0 (10 KO's), while moving to the #9 WBA Lightweight.

March 1976...........W Dec 10 - Jose Ballastros
May 1976..............W Dec 10 - Gustavo 'Peppermint' Farinas
July 1976...............W Dec 10 - Carlos Veracruz
September 1976.........KO 3 --- Memo Contreras

On October 15, 1976 - Alvaro Rojas lasted 2:17 of the 1st-Round with Roberto Duran, in his chance at
the WBA Lightweight Championship.

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 08-07-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
MM Joe,

I'll check the exact record of Alvaro Rojas.

Box/Rec 'does not' have all the complete records of many Latin and Oriental professional boxers.
thanks
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

Joe Louis v Johnny Davis was not a world championship fight.
It doesn't matter what some governing body said, it wasn't a title fight.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:13 PM   #11
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

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Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Joe Louis v Johnny Davis was not a world championship fight.
It doesn't matter what some governing body said, it wasn't a title fight.
If Louis had suffered a heart attack in the ring, then Davis would have been champion.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
If Louis had suffered a heart attack in the ring, then Davis would have been champion.
I don't think so.
The championship was decided by public and press recognition.
I don't think many of them were even aware of this exhibition, never mind recognize it as a title fight.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
So in your mind MMJOe pretty much every modern 'title' fight is a complete travesty?
Champions these days don't ever fight against guys with records of 3-3, or in their first pro fight. I think that's the point of the thread and it's a perfectly valid one. Back in the day the top fighters fought each other regularly, and more often than they do now, but they also fought a lot of cans. Fights that wouldn't even be sanctioned today

Imagine Lewis, Mayweather, De La Hoya, Pacquaio etc fought a 3-3 guy while they were at the top? They'd never live it down, and the classic would slaughter them for it

According to Boxrec, Louis also fought a guy in his first pro fight, five fights after the first Schmelling fight. It says he was a sub for somebody else, but again, that couldn't happen today
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

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Champions these days don't ever fight against guys with records of 3-3, or in their first pro fight. I think that's the point of the thread and it's a perfectly valid one.
Its not a valid point because:

A. It was not even an actual fight.

B. It is by no means certain that the fighters record was actualy 3-3 at the time.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:01 PM   #15
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Default Re: How do champions get away with this type of title challanger?

Alfredo Evangilista didn't neccessarily set the world on fire with a 14-1-1 record.

I liked Alfredo, but the kid never had gone past 8-Rounds, and had only been a
professional for 18 1/2 months.

The WBC was ready to pull the 'trigger' on Muhammad Ali's Championship, but
the sanctioning fee's were paid 'double' to get the bout approved.
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