RJJ is the not the GOAT, but he is the best fighter ever - Page 3

turbotime · 08-07-2012, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arranmcl

I don't get how you're a Roy fan boy but you hate on Rigondeaux for having a bad chin..

I just like teasing the Cubans that act like Rigo is the second coming of Whitaker when he barely beat Cordoba and no one else of note

turbotime · 08-07-2012, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Spadafora

Don't really care about Collins.....There is a pattern with Jones that started at 168 he wanted to take the least amount of risk possible. And we all know why because he was harboring an awful Glass Jaw.

Why do you think he has been willing to travel in recent years? The guy has been KOed on like 4 Continents now

Jones wasn't willing to fight the best available fighters and if he did he would have suffered a few losses just like other ATG's did. So what? You can't win them all.

What would have been worse? Jones losing a close fight to Michaelzcweski or Benn or all these brutal and embarrassing KO's to people like Glen Johnson and Danny Green? I think you know the answer....

Jones would never have lost to DM. Ever. He'd beat Dariusz now, hell DM lost to Gonzalez whom Roy absolutely toyed with.

milkman11 · 08-07-2012, 09:03 PM

He was the best athletic boxer ever. A guy who didn't really apply basic fundamentals except for feinting.

Rico Spadafora · 08-07-2012, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbotime

Jones would never have lost to DM. Ever. He'd beat Dariusz now, hell DM lost to Gonzalez whom Roy absolutely toyed with.

Never said he would but we will never know.....That is the problem with the Jones fanboys it is always woulda, coulda, shoulda with you guys.

All I am saying is a close loss to someone would look a hell of a lot better than some of these savage KO losses do and I guarantee you Roy would trade a close loss to someone like Benn over the KO against Tarver.

turbotime · 08-07-2012, 09:04 PM

Hagler would not beat the best Roy Jones. Hell neither would Spinks. Charles/Burley IMO had the best chance but then again I favour Roy.

He's on another level with his abilities at his best.

ripcity · 08-07-2012, 09:05 PM

At his best I can't see anyone beating Roy Jones at 168 and 175. I also think that he's at the very least a tough night for anyone at 160 and 200.

Mind Reader · 08-07-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Spadafora

Don't really care about Collins.....There is a pattern with Jones that started at 168 he wanted to take the least amount of risk possible. And we all know why because he was harboring an awful Glass Jaw.

Why do you think he has been willing to travel in recent years? The guy has been KOed on like 4 Continents now

Jones wasn't willing to fight the best available fighters and if he did he would have suffered a few losses just like other ATG's did. So what? You can't win them all.

What would have been worse? Jones losing a close fight to Michaelzcweski or Benn or all these brutal and embarrassing KO's to people like Glen Johnson and Danny Green? I think you know the answer....

Actually Rico, i think KO losses way past your best, is better than close losses at your best. That is only my opinion though...

I am sure if Roy could do it over, he would have taken more risks though, a lot of those fighters he would have destroyed.

bionic · 08-07-2012, 09:58 PM

What's with the straight comparisons to Robinson? RJJ fought in era with greatly superior athletes, people lived longer, were stronger, faster, larger...

Why does this get swept under the rug?

Anyone ever watch footage of Olympic events from Sugar Rays era? In many of those sports it's easier to see how big the gap is because a lot of Olympic events are time based or point based.

RJJ would have smoked SRR

Vanboxingfan · 08-07-2012, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbotime

Hagler would not beat the best Roy Jones. Hell neither would Spinks. Charles/Burley IMO had the best chance but then again I favour Roy.

He's on another level with his abilities at his best.

I agree. For whatever reason Roy didn't fight all the fighters he could have but he was damn good in his prime and not too many fighters under 175 wuold have beaten him at his best. Charles would probably have had the best chance. Perhaps Greb who managed to beat Tunney and Conn who was ahead of Louis at one point might of been interesting, but that's hypothetical.

Vanboxingfan · 08-07-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman11

He was the best athletic boxer ever. A guy who didn't really apply basic fundamentals except for feinting.

You could probably add Ali to that list. He did a lot of things wrong but made up with it with speed.

The Brush! · 08-07-2012, 10:54 PM

BUT did he have the GBOAT???

NOPE!

the_what · 08-07-2012, 11:03 PM

Jesus with boxing gloves (c) The Ring in '97

keith · 08-08-2012, 01:27 AM

I rank him number 5 all time. Behind SRR, Ali, Louis, and Armstrong.

Keith

Body Head · 08-08-2012, 01:39 AM

Roy Jones is the GOAT. RJJ KO1 Pacquaio.

Smashgar · 08-08-2012, 05:17 AM

Jones had a bad end to his career, like a lot of guys have had, but as time goes by that will fade from memory the same as it did for those others.

There is no mystery to his chin. Again, look to Chris Byrd.

Byrd had a legitimate heavyweight chin. Not uncrackable, as Ike showed, but definitely legit. (Nobody goes all those rounds with the Klitschkos, Tua, etc. without a decent chin.) Except Byrd stayed heavier for nearly his entire career, came down to 175 much later, and those factors made the effects even worse.

When Byrd came down to light heavy, the effect upon his punch resistance was CATASTROPHIC. Shaun George weighs 175 and has like a 50% KO rate. A guy who went 12 with Tua should be able to stand in front of him and laugh all day, even when totally shot. And yet George got Byrd out of there faster than Povetkin did seven months prior.

How the **** does that happen? Where did his chin go?

Losing weight like that ****s up your punch resistance. It just does. Maybe a younger guy could manage it, maybe, but not these guys in their mid/late thirties. Byrd went from going 12 with Wlad to getting sparked by a light heavy that even shot Jones could have handled. Jones didn't come down as far or after anywhere near as much time, but the same logic applies.

Roy Jones was fast and elusive, but he did not campaign across 40 pounds worth of weight classes for the first 14+ years of his career without ever getting cracked on the jaw. He was not somehow hiding a glass chin for over a decade by magically keeping all his opponents to a 0% connect rate. His chin was fine, until he lost the weight.

08-07-2012, 09:03 PM	#33
milkman11 Boxing Junkie ESB Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 840 vCash: 1000	Re: RJJ is the not the GOAT, but he is the best fighter ever He was the best athletic boxer ever. A guy who didn't really apply basic fundamentals except for feinting.
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08-07-2012, 09:04 PM	#35
turbotime Future Hall Of Famer East Side VIP Join Date: May 2012 Location: LA/Canada Posts: 17,563 vCash: 816	Re: RJJ is the not the GOAT, but he is the best fighter ever Hagler would not beat the best Roy Jones. Hell neither would Spinks. Charles/Burley IMO had the best chance but then again I favour Roy. He's on another level with his abilities at his best.
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08-07-2012, 09:05 PM	#36
ripcity Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: "Somebody may beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it." Posts: 10,009 vCash: 845	Re: RJJ is the not the GOAT, but he is the best fighter ever At his best I can't see anyone beating Roy Jones at 168 and 175. I also think that he's at the very least a tough night for anyone at 160 and 200.
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08-07-2012, 09:58 PM	#38
bionic newbie Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 31 vCash: 500	Re: RJJ is the not the GOAT, but he is the best fighter ever What's with the straight comparisons to Robinson? RJJ fought in era with greatly superior athletes, people lived longer, were stronger, faster, larger... Why does this get swept under the rug? Anyone ever watch footage of Olympic events from Sugar Rays era? In many of those sports it's easier to see how big the gap is because a lot of Olympic events are time based or point based. RJJ would have smoked SRR
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08-07-2012, 10:54 PM	#41
The Brush! Journeyman Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 59 vCash: 500	Re: RJJ is the not the GOAT, but he is the best fighter ever BUT did he have the GBOAT??? NOPE!
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08-07-2012, 11:03 PM	#42
the_what Bolo Punch KO ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 4,024 vCash: 1000	Re: RJJ is the not the GOAT, but he is the best fighter ever Jesus with boxing gloves (c) The Ring in '97
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08-08-2012, 01:27 AM	#43
keith ESB OG ESB Addict Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Here to annoy the looney left Posts: 1,819 vCash: 1000	Re: RJJ is the not the GOAT, but he is the best fighter ever I rank him number 5 all time. Behind SRR, Ali, Louis, and Armstrong. Keith
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08-08-2012, 01:39 AM	#44
Body Head East Side Rape (CEO) ESB Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,474 vCash: 75	Re: RJJ is the not the GOAT, but he is the best fighter ever Roy Jones is the GOAT. RJJ KO1 Pacquaio.
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08-08-2012, 05:17 AM	#45
Smashgar McMustache Nuthugger ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: USA Posts: 533 vCash: 356	Re: RJJ is the not the GOAT, but he is the best fighter ever Jones had a bad end to his career, like a lot of guys have had, but as time goes by that will fade from memory the same as it did for those others. There is no mystery to his chin. Again, look to Chris Byrd. Byrd had a legitimate heavyweight chin. Not uncrackable, as Ike showed, but definitely legit. (Nobody goes all those rounds with the Klitschkos, Tua, etc. without a decent chin.) Except Byrd stayed heavier for nearly his entire career, came down to 175 much later, and those factors made the effects even worse. When Byrd came down to light heavy, the effect upon his punch resistance was CATASTROPHIC. Shaun George weighs 175 and has like a 50% KO rate. A guy who went 12 with Tua should be able to stand in front of him and laugh all day, even when totally shot. And yet George got Byrd out of there faster than Povetkin did seven months prior. How the ** does that happen? Where did his chin go? Losing weight like that **s up your punch resistance. It just does. Maybe a younger guy could manage it, maybe, but not these guys in their mid/late thirties. Byrd went from going 12 with Wlad to getting sparked by a light heavy that even shot Jones could have handled. Jones didn't come down as far or after anywhere near as much time, but the same logic applies. Roy Jones was fast and elusive, but he did not campaign across 40 pounds worth of weight classes for the first 14+ years of his career without ever getting cracked on the jaw. He was not somehow hiding a glass chin for over a decade by magically keeping all his opponents to a 0% connect rate. His chin was fine, until he lost the weight.
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