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Old 08-19-2012, 04:46 AM   #1
Kittikasem
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Default Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

...what a special fighter Rousey is, or how underdeveloped womens' MMA is?

What I mean is, to continually win every fight the same way, does this show that an Olympic level judoka like Rousey is just a special fighter doing a special thing, or does it show that the best female fighters cannot defend against a simple submission even after training to prepare for precisely that submission?

I like Rousey (as a fighter, a personality, and a potential recipient of ***ual fluids), but feel as if it would legitimize womens' MMA somewhat if she was forced to win a fight another way. Hopefully she fights Meisha Tate again soon, before the return of the Cyborg, as Tate has a good skillset and really shouldn't get caught by this again.
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:53 AM   #2
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

I wouldn't mind seeing a fight with Sara McMann. She hasn't been too impressive, but she is unbeaten, and is an Olympic silver medalist in freestyle wrestling. Olympian vs. Olympian is a good angle.
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Old 08-19-2012, 05:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

Yes, fighters are training to defend those techniques but the trick is that the other fighters are training to apply them.

Does the fact Palhares Heel Hooks professional fighters constantly signify just how weak MMA is? No, he's just that adept at doing it and when you truly get into the nuances of BJJ it really is so intricate that even a good black belt can't always defend themselves even when they know what is coming.

This isn't a revelation, it's common knowledge to those who train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:30 AM   #4
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

Weird post James23.

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Originally Posted by James23 View Post
Does the fact Palhares Heel Hooks professional fighters constantly signify just how weak MMA is?
Er, no. Because Palhares is a mid level mw fighter. When Palhares fights top mw's, he cannot heel-hook them and loses. He coulnd't heel-hook Hendo, and lost. He couldn't heel-hook Marquardt, and lost. That's why he isn't in the title picture at all, he is only borderline top 10.

Palhares tried very hard to heel-hook Alan Belcher, but Belcher knew how to defend it, fought it off, and destroyed Palhares on the ground afterwards. And Alan Belcher is not top of the pile in MMA, he is not Anderson Silva, and soon may be proved that he's not even Vitor Belfort either (ie, not a top 5 fighter in his division).


How is this the same as the situation with Rousey in womens MMA?

Palhares's failure to heel-hook the top mw's shows that mens MMA is strong and that the fighters are well-rounded.

Ronda Rousey is finishing every fight by the same maneouvre in the 1st round, she has now beaten a few of the best women in the world, and only one single woman has gone more than 1 single minute with her.

She is effectively the Jon Jones of womens MMA, in fact even more dominant, yet instead of the extraordinary skillset Jon Jones has, all she does is continually impose the one hold on every opponent.


I have no idea how you can draw a parallel with Palhares - not the same at all!
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:35 AM   #5
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
Weird post James23.



Er, no. Because Palhares is a mid level mw fighter. When Palhares fights top mw's, he cannot heel-hook them and loses. He coulnd't heel-hook Hendo, and lost. He couldn't heel-hook Marquardt, and lost. That's why he isn't in the title picture at all, he is only borderline top 10.

Palhares tried very hard to heel-hook Alan Belcher, but Belcher knew how to defend it, fought it off, and destroyed Palhares on the ground afterwards. And Alan Belcher is not top of the pile in MMA, he is not Anderson Silva, and soon may be proved that he's not even Vitor Belfort either (ie, not a top 5 fighter in his division).


How is this the same as the situation with Rousey in womens MMA?

Palhares's failure to heel-hook the top mw's shows that mens MMA is strong and that the fighters are well-rounded.

Ronda Rousey is finishing every fight by the same maneouvre in the 1st round, she has now beaten a few of the best women in the world, and only one single woman has gone more than 1 single minute with her.

She is effectively the Jon Jones of womens MMA, in fact even more dominant, yet instead of the extraordinary skillset Jon Jones has, all she does is continually impose the one hold on every opponent.


I have no idea how you can draw a parallel with Palhares - not the same at all!
A big difference in Palhares and Rousey is that Rousey specializes in throwing, or tripping, her opponent to the mat. Rousey puts her opponent on the mat, gets in position, and goes for her move.

Check out this video, and her working with Nick Diaz: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] It's around a 1min and 30 sec into it.

Palhares also has a poor defense for strikes on the ground, and that is what has cost him in a few of his mma bouts. His submissions are top notch. He heel hooked 3 fighters in a row in his last ADCC, and made it all the way to the finals where he was outpointed by Galvao.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:39 AM   #6
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
A big difference in Palhares and Rousey is that Rousey specializes in throwing, or tripping, her opponent to the mat. Rousey puts her opponent on the mat, gets in position, and goes for her move. Check out this video, and her working with Nick Diaz: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Palhares also has a poor defense for strikes on the ground, and that is what has cost him in a few of his mma bouts. His submissions are top notch. He heel hooked 3 fighters in a row in his last ADCC, and made it all the way to the finals where he was outpointed by Galvao.
Thats because Rousey is one of the, if not the best female Judoka in the world...
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:09 AM   #7
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

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Originally Posted by scurlaruntings View Post
Thats because Rousey is one of the, if not the best female Judoka in the world...
Which is my point. Palhares is not a world class judoka, or wrestler. He knows how to execute take downs, but he will not pursue them nearly as aggressively as a wrestler or judoka.
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:40 PM   #8
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

This is almost like the 'Wilt Chamberlain vs his competition' debate. I think she's just too good for these girls. They have more or less the same access to training like Ronda. It's not her fault she utilized her resources more and earlier than her competition.
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

^^what he said.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:00 PM   #10
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

The first lady who forces a fist fight with Ronda and avoids the clinch is going to give Ronda her first challenging fight.

Right now, she's just incredibly good in the clinch because she has all the tell tale abilities of a good Judoka (male or female) in terms of her balance, power, understanding and timing. You can see she's put a ton of time into that armbar, she shows impressive strength and dexterity on the ground. Problem is going to be when someone finally is able to neutralize her clinch and force her to strike

In my eyes she's an incredible ground fighter who probably has some serious holes in her game in terms of striking. Meisha Tate is a good rematch, but really I think Ronda's grappling is THAT good that she will be able to just rely on it for now. Remains to be seen whether she can deal with someone like Cyborg.

Ronda is a little ****y lately, maybe it's just all the exposure, always really liked her.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

I think it shows more of what kind of a real talent Rousey is. Really hope they can make a fight between her and Cyborg.
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

Ronda is really that good. She is elevating the sport to another level in Womens MMA. Someone will come around and eventually beat her but for right now she is the one with the stronger mindset, skill set and champion genetics. Being an Olympian Judoka and surronding yourself with some the best trainers ever allso completes this very talented athlete.
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:26 PM   #13
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

Quote:
Originally Posted by scurlaruntings View Post
Thats because Rousey is one of the, if not the best female Judoka in the world...
I'd buy that she's the best in mma right now, but given that she was a bronze and not a gold, I don't know that she was ever even the best in her weight class. We now have a gold medal winning judo chick a couple of weight classes above her, so it seems she's not even the best American judoka nowadays.

Anyway, I think she's figured out how to do her one trick really really well. Once someone can put her off of that we'll see what else she has, if anything.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

Bitch is a fraud imo, a complete and utter one trick pony!!, during every exchange on the feet she's had in the cage i've never seen her win a single one, she ran from the 145 division because she knew Cris would put a beating on that ass and now she's bullying girls who haven't got the strength or frame to deal with her clinch game, it's all very calculated imo which is why she wants to drain Cyborg now by forcing her to come down in weight,

The bottom line is any chick who can keep the fight on the feet would win against Ronda, i think Cyborg would have a great chance but also i think Marloes Coenen would be a nightmare for Ronda stylistically because Coenen is better on the feet but is also a beast on the ground, i'd like to see her face Ronda next,

I heard one of her coaches say in recent interview "it don't matter who you put her up against, even in the men in the UFC she's technically better than all of them"..man i just laughed my head off!! , if there was a female anderson silva, gsp, jon jones etc that ass would be grass, it's as simple as that.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: Does Ronda Rousey's win over Sarak Kaufman show...

If Gina Carano can fully mount Cyborg twice, I don't see Ronda having much of an issue.
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