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Old 08-18-2012, 07:07 AM   #46
ThaWiseJester
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

Cotto of 09 was younger and fresher? We all know who fought the better version of Cotto.... And Coralles was undefeated at the time and a dangerous fight for him.. He was not previously KO'd so that win was bigger than Manny facing Cotto that's a big win to leave out..
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:45 AM   #47
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

Pactards grasping at straws.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:00 AM   #48
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

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Originally Posted by Go Getta View Post
Just because you don't consider him to be elite doesn't mean that he wasn't. Best lightweight of the past decade IMO.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:02 AM   #49
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaWiseJester View Post
Cotto of 09 was younger and fresher? We all know who fought the better version of Cotto.... And Coralles was undefeated at the time and a dangerous fight for him.. He was not previously KO'd so that win was bigger than Manny facing Cotto that's a big win to leave out..
typical Flomo-Logic right here

the un-shot Cotto
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:05 AM   #50
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaWiseJester View Post
Cotto of 09 was younger and fresher? We all know who fought the better version of Cotto.... And Coralles was undefeated at the time and a dangerous fight for him.. He was not previously KO'd so that win was bigger than Manny facing Cotto that's a big win to leave out..
why the need to put a question mark? isn't it obvious already?
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:03 AM   #51
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
Pacquiao fought better comp.

If you made a top 5 of the best opponents faced by either, I'd be looking at:

1.Barrera (version faced by Pac in '03)
2.Marquez (version faced by Pac in '04 & '08
3.Morales (version faced by Pac in 1st & 2nd fights, '05 & '06)
4.Castillo (version twice faced by Floyd in '02)
5.Cotto (version faced by Pac in '09)

IMO, Cotto is a better all-round fighter than Corrales was, and the Cotto of '09 at ww was younger, fresher and so logically better than the (post-Pacquiao beating) Cotto of '12 at lmw.

That makes it 4-1 Pac, and shows who faced the tougher guys in his career.

---

Most importantly of all, Pac has two wins over prime/near-prime HOF-class fighters in Barrera (03) and Marquez '08. Floyd has no wins to compare to these.



Man you are crazy. First off, the only reason you give Pac credit for beating Moralas, is because Moralas whipped his ass before. The same goes for Marquez and he whipped Pac ass three times!


1. Morales - I dont give him credit for the Morales fight because for one, he was already damaged goods. Morales and Barrerra had been beating the shit out each other for years. Also, after the first fight when Morales kick Pac ass, Morales fought Zahir Raheem and got his ass kicked. Then freash off a lost he fought PAc.

2. Marquez - I wont even get into this one. The fact that Pac is talking about a fourth fight with a fighter who never OFFICIALLY got the win should tell you something! And didn't Mayweather completely outclass MArquez.

3. Cotto - Man did I hear you compare Cotto to Diego CORRALES when Floyd fought him. Are you crazy? Cotto just came off one of the salvage beatings I ever seen a man take in Boxing. Then after that fight, Cotto fought Clottey and I think he lost. So then, Pac beats the shit out of a weight drained and mentally/physically beat fighter. Think about it, when Flloyd fought Corrales, it was two undefeated fighters matching up in their prime. Corrales was at the time 33-0 with 31KO's. If you remember that time, he was one of the most feared boxer in the lower weight classes. So for you to say Cotto when he fought Pac was better than Corrales when he fought Floyd means you are crazy.

4. I feel that it is always easier to say a fighter with loses has a better chance of making the case that they fought the harder opposition. Reason beings is that when they lose, it automatically raises both fighters credentials. EXAMPLE Take Ali, as great as he was, he always manage to lose a fight against fighters like Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Leon Spinks, and Larry Homes. Just image if he never lose to any of these fighters, would you say he fought the toughest opponents? No you would not aknowledge these fighters as great fighters because we would of threw them in the bucket of fighters who couldn't beat Ali.

Same thing with Mayweather, he beats everybody, so after the fight, they always say he aint fought nobody. I mean, lets be honest, Floyd is way better than EVERYBODY Manny has faced. Floyd would of beat the shit out of Morales, Bareerra, and who else?
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:45 AM   #52
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

H2H Floyd picks Pac to pieces, but Pac has the far superior resume. Floyd has no-one but himself to blame for his resume.
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:54 AM   #53
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjnight View Post
4. I feel that it is always easier to say a fighter with loses has a better chance of making the case that they fought the harder opposition. Reason beings is that when they lose, it automatically raises both fighters credentials. EXAMPLE Take Ali, as great as he was, he always manage to lose a fight against fighters like Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Leon Spinks, and Larry Homes. Just image if he never lose to any of these fighters, would you say he fought the toughest opponents? No you would not aknowledge these fighters as great fighters because we would of threw them in the bucket of fighters who couldn't beat Ali.

Same thing with Mayweather, he beats everybody, so after the fight, they always say he aint fought nobody. I mean, lets be honest, Floyd is way better than EVERYBODY Manny has faced. Floyd would of beat the shit out of Morales, Bareerra, and who else?
I agree with what your saying, especially about Corrales and Cotto - Corrales was a killer when he faced Mayweather, and the fact Mayweather has beaten everyone does mean people then under-rate the fighters he's beaten....but at the same time Manny does have the edge on the resume. Its very easy to sit here and say "oh Floyd would have beaten Morales, Barrera etc" but the fact is he didn't. The same way you can't say Manny would have beaten X,Y,Z if he didn't fight them. I think a lot of Mayweather's initial hesitancy to fight Pacquiao is because he knocked out Morales twice. We all know Morales is one of the toughest fighters of recent times, Manny knocked him out twice. That and the Barrera win alone are better than anything on Floyd's resume.
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:10 AM   #54
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

43-0
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:14 AM   #55
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

Pacquiao fought better names. But he fought them under dodgier circustances compared to Floyd. Barrera 2003 win was a great one though.
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:15 AM   #56
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

Great thread pal.

My two cents.

They both have good resumes with the Pacman having the bigger wins due to his encounters at the lower weights.

I like the Marquez and Castillo recognition(both over Morales for me) despite the competetive outcome they are both very good at the weight.

Barrera is obviously the star here.

I however am in two minds over Mayweather vs Mosley.
On the one hand:
Cons.
Long layoff. Berto cancellation. 38 yrs old. Seen better days. Post fight with Mayweather proved to be shot.
Pros.
If the Pacman fight wasn't on then he HAD to fight Shane.
Smashed Margarito to be number 1 welter.
Very good performance while showing his willingness to be fight in the trenches.

For me the Tsyzu fight instead of Gatti would have significantly enhanced his legacy. Forget Margarito who cheated, Tsyzu would have made him undisputed at 140.


Its the retirement that will always show the gap for me. Tsyzu was the fight
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:19 AM   #57
Hoshi
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

Great thread pal.

My two cents.

They both have good resumes with the Pacman having the bigger wins due to his encounters at the lower weights.

I like the Marquez and Castillo recognition(both over Morales for me) despite the competetive outcome they are both very good at the weight.

Barrera is obviously the star here.

I however am in two minds over Mayweather vs Mosley.
On the one hand:
Cons.
Long layoff. Berto cancellation. 38 yrs old. Seen better days. Post fight with Mayweather proved to be shot.
Pros.
If the Pacman fight wasn't on then he HAD to fight Shane.
Smashed Margarito to be number 1 welter.
Very good performance while showing his willingness to fight in the trenches.
For ms the Tsyzu fight instead of Gatti would have significantly enhanced his legacy. Forget Margarito who cheated, Tsyzu would have made him undisputed at 140.


Its the retirement that will always show the gap for me. Tsyzu was the fight
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:20 AM   #58
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

Prime for prime: Whittaker ****s both floyd and pac man up
Prime for prime: Tszyu would KO pac, but the floyd fight could be exciting, because Tszyu never had problems with people who non-pressure fighters (He would've destroyed ODLH)
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:22 AM   #59
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Getta View Post
Yes PAC beating a elite prime Barrera is better than any win on Floyd's record.


Which prime Elite fighter Floyd beaten??? None.
Castillo
Corrales
Hatton
Mosley
Oscar
Cotto
Judah
Hernandez
Manfredy
Chavez
Ortiz
Gatti was a top 3 fighter in the 140 division, and Hatton and Cotto refused to mention Mayweather's name in public after that fight.
Hell nearly every guy he beat during his title reign at Super Featherweight.
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:29 AM   #60
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Default Re: One (major) thing that Pacquiao undoubtedly has over Mayweather in an ATG discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
H2H Floyd picks Pac to pieces, but Pac has the far superior resume. Floyd has no-one but himself to blame for his resume.


Floyd really shouldn't have 'retired' after Hatton. Could have made up for all the missed fights at 135 and 140
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