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Old 08-22-2012, 01:51 PM   #46
Lord Tywin
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

More to the point Patterson did not enter the ring with an injured back.

Patterson had chronic back problems, as many fighters do, there is a big difference. With Patterson, as with Fernando Vargas, Mike Tyson, and others, there was an increased chance that his back could go out on him during a fight but that is different from knowingly entering the ring with an injury.

Patterson's back did not flare up until the fourth round of his fight with Ali.

He was cleared by the Nevada Commission doctor prior to the fight and supported in saying that there was no way to predict when or if his back would ever go out.

More B.S. from Pepe to try to discredit Ali's win.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:57 PM   #47
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Tywin View Post
More to the point Patterson did not enter the ring with an injured back.

Patterson had chronic back problems, as many fighters do, there is a big difference. With Patterson, as with Fernando Vargas, Mike Tyson, and others, there was an increased chance that his back could go out on him during a fight but that is different from knowingly entering the ring with an injury.

Patterson's back did not flare up until the fourth round of his fight with Ali.

He was cleared by the Nevada Commission doctor prior to the fight and supported in saying that there was no way to predict when or if his back would ever go out.

More B.S. from Pepe to try to discredit Ali's win.
i still would not call it "many fighters" as I rarely read about it .
Patterson did have an injured back prior to his fight with Ali .
You expect them to put him through MRI ? you think they did it for searching back injuries pre fight ?
Your post is bullshit and is another try to grant Ali undeserved respect against a hindered opponent just like you always do while disrespecting greater albeit less popular fighters .
This is a major ingredient of your agenda .
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:58 PM   #48
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

Sorry Lord Tywin,

You're wrong again.

Dr. Michael Blatt recount of the events is in Sports Illustrated.

He wanted Floyd to cancel the bout on the Wednesday, before the bout.

Floyd was turned down by the Nevada State Boxing Commission in 1967.

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 08-22-2012 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:59 PM   #49
Lord Tywin
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
i still would not call it "many fighters" as I rarely read about it .
Patterson did have an injured back prior to his fight with Ali .
You expect them to put him through MRI ? you think they did it for searching back injuries pre fight ?
Your post is bullshit and is another try to grant Ali undeserved respect against a hindered opponent just like you always do while disrespecting greater albeit less popular fighters .
This is a major ingredient of your agenda .

MRIs werent in use in 1965 dumbass.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:03 PM   #50
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

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Originally Posted by Lord Tywin View Post
MRIs werent in use in 1965 dumbass.
It only solidifies my claim that they did not verify the state of his back using MRI .

Did they use CT ? anything ? probably a manual examination meant only for covering asses legally .
Just like modern medicine does .

Do you , as a man of documented evidence , have any proof of Patterson's back being seriously examined prior to his fight with Ali and found clear ?
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:10 PM   #51
Lord Tywin
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

That "injury" started out as a "slight twinge" five days before the fight and was blown up by the press (and carried by Pepe) to be a serious back injury.

And yes, several high profile fighters have or have had bad backs. It doesnt mean that every time they enter the ring they are going to fall apart.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:24 PM   #52
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

November 23, 1965

"Cassius Defeated A Cripple"

The Oakland Tribune

Dr. Michael Blatt (Floyd Patterson's personal physician)

'I pleaded with Floyd On Wednesday (6-days before the Monday Night bout) to cancel the fight.
I told him that he was crazy to try and fight without being able to move.'


Dr. Reginald Gold, a chiropractor who used to treat Floyd for his chronic back pain.

'I used to bring my folding table with me to all of Floyd's fights, and work over his back, to stretch
out the muscles and work on his spinal area. The guy has alot of pride, and saying no to a fight
would be hard for him.'

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Old 08-22-2012, 02:32 PM   #53
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

So Floyd somehow got over on the system because he wasnt tested using technology that didnt exist at the time. O... K...

For the record C.T. didnt exist either, I guess you can blame Floyd or Ali for that as well.

Yes, I do have proof that Patterson was examined by a Commission doctor. He was examined once during training and once during the pre fight physical and passed both examinations in excellent shape. What grounds could they have stopped him from fighting?

The doctor afterwards stated that even had they known that Patterson had a history of back troubles it would not have been enough to say that he either had an injury, or that an injury was imminent.

The fact is exactly what Floyd stated and stuck to until his dying day:

He had a history of back problems.

He felt a slight twinge in his back late in his camp.

Knowing his own body and how to prevent injury he took a few extra days off at the end of his training camp to rest his back.

He was cleared by commission doctors for the fight.

In the third round he began to feel back spasms and by the fourth he was in serious pain.

Its as simple as that.

Tyson had several instances where his back was injured in training and fought on and won. As did Fernando Vargas, Shane Mosely, and others. In fact Mosely's biggest win against De La Hoya was done while suffering from back spasms after having experienced them in training at Big Bear.

No conspiracy.

I have a phrase that will help Il Duce deal with issues such as this: Shit happens.

The universe did not align itself to converge in a perfect storm that culminated in Ali being recognized as possibly the greatest heavyweight ever. In fact he had quite a few roadblocks in his way, not the least of which was a dazzlingly talented division.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:33 PM   #54
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
November 23, 1965

"Cassius Defeated A Cripple"

The Oakland Tribune

Dr. Michael Blatt (Floyd Patterson's personal physician)

'I pleaded with Floyd On Wednesday (6-days before the Monday Night bout) to cancel the fight.
I told him that he was crazy to try and fight without being able to move.'


Dr. Reginald Gold, a chiropractor who used to treat Floyd for his chronic back pain.

'I used to bring my folding table with me to all of Floyd's fights, and work over his back, to stretch
out the muscles and work on his spinal area. The guy has alot of pride, and saying no to a fight
would be hard for him.'

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Exactly, so this was something Floyd dealt with for much of his career. Meaning he wasnt injured. It just so happened that this one time his back went out on him. Jeez, imagine how great this guy must have been to defeat all the guys he defeated as a "cripple".
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:45 PM   #55
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

Patterson won the event.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:47 PM   #56
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

Fact,

Floyd hurt his spine on Wednesday (November 17th).

Dr. Michaell Blatt treated Floyd for the back injury, and wanted Floyd to
postpone the bout.

Dr. Michael Blatt and Floyd kept the injury to themselves, and did not tell the
Nevada State Boxing Commissioner, and chief medical examiner Dr. Donald Romeo.

During the bout, Dr. Donald Romeo was fuming, as he later said.

'I knew they lied to me, I knew it right away. Floyd deceived the public into thinking
he was fit and competent to compete in a high-level boxing match. After the bout,
I walked into his dressing room, and I said I shoud pull your license right now. But I felt
bad about the beating he just took, and I figured I'd wait another day before I gave him my
opinion on his unprofessional behavior.'
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:00 PM   #57
Lord Tywin
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

Thats a big leap from a bad back to an actual injury. What was the nature of the injury? How did it happen?

Thats an interesting quote Duce considering the day after the fight he said: "Far as myself and everybody were concerned Floyd entered the fight in good shape. He claimed he was in excellent condition and I think it was an honest appraisal on his part. HE COULDNT KNOW HIMSELF WHEN THE BACK WOULD 'GO OUT' ON HIM DURING THE FIGHT."
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:09 PM   #58
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

Floyd Patterson deceived the Nevada State Boxing Commission into thinking he
was fit and competent on November 22, 1965, and he was not.

Later in April 1967, the Nevada State Boxing Commission said "NO" to a Cassius Clay
vs Floyd Patterson bout in Las Vegas.

Promoter Al Bolan lost a 'boat-load' of money on trying to get Floyd approved.

Of course, a young and strong - Thad Spencer was waiting just a few hundred miles away.
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:50 PM   #59
Lord Tywin
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

So where is your evidence that Floyd deceived anyone and that he was injured during training? You can spin this any way you want but once again you have made a huge leap in trying to tie together your argument and it just doesnt add up.

Floyd Patterson was one of the most honorable men this sport has ever seen and yet in order to paint Ali as being a blown up hype job you feel the need to drag his name through the mud while in another thread you try to elevate Thad Spencer of all people to near Charley Burley levels of being ducked. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

What in Spencer's record in 1965 makes you think he should have been considered over Patterson as a contender for Ali? Was it his win over Rischer, or his revenge win over light heavyweight Chuck Leslie? I mean after all, Spencer did lose that same night to slow, plodding, human catchers mit Amos Lincoln. But you think he should have gotten a shot at Ali.

Or are we now talking about 1967, 2 years later? Nobody gave two shits about Spencer at that point either. To put this in perspective Ali made $90,000 fighting Chuvalo one month before your proposed April 1967 bout against Spencer. Spencers last bout had been against Doug Jones and the ENTIRE GATE totalled $28,000.

You criticize Ali for fighting Brian London instead of Spencer but do you know how much money Ali made against London? Over $250,000. He couldnt have gotten one tenth that amount to fight Spencer and thats where your conspiracy theories fall flat.

Its called PRIZE FIGHTING and Spencer had not adequately built up his name enough to be thrown in to the big money fights. He had an opportunity with the elimination tournament and it ruined his career.

Dont blame Ali that Spencer couldnt bring home the bacon. You go out and force a fight by fighting and beating the best. By the time Spencer broke in to that class of opposition Ali was banned and Spencer subsequently showed he wasnt able to compete at that level.
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:20 PM   #60
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson 'Oh, My Achin Back' 11/22/65

Floyd Patterson,

'I have no excuses. I am very sorry for what happened tonight.
I had hoped to give the Americans a victory. He was the better
man.'

"I had wanted to go on, but my corner said no. The Referee, Harry Krausse
said let's stop it Floyd, I can't let it go on. If I was watching the fight
on TV, I would have said to stop it too.'

Cassius Clay received $750,000

Floyd Patterson received $350,000

Additional ancillary fee's have not been tallied.
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