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View Poll Results: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?
Yes. 11 39.29%
No. 4 14.29%
MMA Fighters are scared to fight toe to toe. 10 35.71%
No, they prefer MMA. 3 10.71%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-27-2012, 02:58 PM   #61
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

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Originally Posted by boranbkk View Post
I mentioned him and a load of other MT fighters and Kickboxers a page or so ago, but I've been told they don't count.
Sorry Boran.

In the strictest sense, Vitaly was a kickboxer. Samart among other Thai legends are nak muay.

Sure they practice martial arts, so that makes them martial artist. Not mixed martial artist.

That's how I understand it.

Plus, MMA has been well-defined now at this point. Guys who compete in MMA competition and has trained for complete skill set (striking, grappling, etc.)

Allow me to add that if Buakaw fights in an MMA fight, he's now a true MMA practitioner, and if he transitions to boxing, he'll make this list as well.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:53 PM   #62
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

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Originally Posted by SugarShane_24 View Post
Sorry Boran.

In the strictest sense, Vitaly was a kickboxer. Samart among other Thai legends are nak muay.

Sure they practice martial arts, so that makes them martial artist. Not mixed martial artist.

That's how I understand it.

Plus, MMA has been well-defined now at this point. Guys who compete in MMA competition and has trained for complete skill set (striking, grappling, etc.)

Allow me to add that if Buakaw fights in an MMA fight, he's now a true MMA practitioner, and if he transitions to boxing, he'll make this list as well.
Fair enough fellas, I’ll concede whilst on a western based “MMA” forum the words “Mixed Martial Artist” refer to UFC of Pride styled fighters. Although I question just how “complete” the skill sets are with many of them particularly the guys that come out of a grappling background.

However, in the east particulalry in Japan any event that fuses styles like the K-1 where Karate guys fight Kickboxers who fight Boxers who fight Taekwondo guys who fight Muay Thai guys who fight…… well……Bob Sapp type guys () is generally termed as a Mixed Martial Arts event. But no one has really answered my question, what do you call a guy like Samart who competed in both MT, Boxing and Kickboxing?

And while we’re all being so fussy about word selection “Nak Muay” just translates as “Boxer” and is used to refer to Muay Thai fighters, Boxers, Amateur Boxers, Wrestlers and “MMA” fighters alike. It’s been adopted in the West by guys who don’t speak Thai and has been used incorrectly for some time now outside of Thailand in the sense that it is used by westerners to refer to only Thai boxers.

“Nak” is just a Thai prefix used to show someone who has a vocation, you then combine it with the action and this makes the vocation For example:

Nak Rien = Student
Nak Turagit = Business man
Nak Tong Tio = Tour Guide
So in the fight world:
Nak Muay Thai = Thai Boxer
Nak Muay Sakon = Western Styled Boxer (Pro)
Nak Muay Samak Len = Amateur Western Styled Boxer
Nak Muay Baum = Wrestler and surprisingly MMA fighter.

Anyway, I’ll roll on my belly and accept on this forum your only an MMA fighter if you’ve spent a lot of time rolling on your back.

Last edited by boranbkk; 08-27-2012 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:58 PM   #63
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

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Originally Posted by BillyBomber View Post
The level of boxing in MMA is a big fat joke. If there was a single MMA fighter that actually has good enough boxing to compete at a high level, he probably wouldn't even be involved in MMA at the first place.

You're ****ing retarded. Not everyone who ever does a combat sport wants to box. Grow up.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:53 PM   #64
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

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Originally Posted by boranbkk View Post
Fair enough fellas, I’ll concede whilst on a western based “MMA” forum the words “Mixed Martial Artist” refer to UFC of Pride styled fighters. Although I question just how “complete” the skill sets are with many of them particularly the guys that come out of a grappling background.

However, in the east particulalry in Japan any event that fuses styles like the K-1 where Karate guys fight Kickboxers who fight Boxers who fight Taekwondo guys who fight Muay Thai guys who fight…… well……Bob Sapp type guys () is generally termed as a Mixed Martial Arts event. But no one has really answered my question, what do you call a guy like Samart who competed in both MT, Boxing and Kickboxing?
No one consulted with me when "Mixed Martial Arts" was first used to define a sport, and I am quite sure that is where the problem started. People should always ask for my advise. It makes the world better. Anyway...

I have a literal sense when it comes to words unless I specify them to be abstract. I think natural means anything that comes from nature. What doesn't come from nature? Everything comes from nature. A box of cereal filled with metal bolts would be an all natural product. If you eat them and die, you will have committed a natural act.

I hate the term "workoholic." Whoever came up with that shit was not very clever. If you have an alcohol consumption problem, you are an alcoholic. Notice that alcoholic is simply alcohol with ic attached. Wouldn't you actually be a workic? I even disagree with spell-check in this paragraph. It's telling me that it should be workaholic instead of workoholic. They're stealing the oholic from alcoholic, and then misspelling it. The bullshit never ceases.

Back to the topic:

Anyone that competes in more than one martial art is technically a mixed martial artist. All of the people you mentioned would fall under that description. Sadly, Mixed Martial Arts is now what a certain sport, that most of us posters are fans of, has come to be known as. Is Samart a world class mixed martial artist? Yes, he is. Does he compete in MMA? No, he doesn't.

I can't compare Samart's career directly to Anderson Silva's. Not in an mma sense that is. I could only compare them as athletes, and comment on their abilities regarding their respective achievements. I can't look at how will Samart performed in a fight where grappling is limited, or not allowed, and compare it with a fighter that is fighting under different circumstances.

I wish that they would have come up with something better than "mma," but they didn't. Now we're stuck sorting it out.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:56 PM   #65
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

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Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
No one consulted with me when "Mixed Martial Arts" was first used to define a sport, and I am quite sure that is where the problem started. People should always ask for my advise. It makes the world better. Anyway...

I have a literal sense when it comes to words unless I specify them to be abstract. I think natural means anything that comes from nature. What doesn't come from nature? Everything comes from nature. A box of cereal filled with metal bolts would be an all natural product. If you eat them and die, you will have committed a natural act.

I hate the term "workoholic." Whoever came up with that shit was not very clever. If you have an alcohol consumption problem, you are an alcoholic. Notice that alcoholic is simply alcohol with ic attached. Wouldn't you actually be a workic? I even disagree with spell-check in this paragraph. It's telling me that it should be workaholic instead of workoholic. They're stealing the oholic from alcoholic, and then misspelling it. The bullshit never ceases.

Back to the topic:

Anyone that competes in more than one martial art is technically a mixed martial artist. All of the people you mentioned would fall under that description. Sadly, Mixed Martial Arts is now what a certain sport, that most of us posters are fans of, has come to be known as. Is Samart a world class mixed martial artist? Yes, he is. Does he compete in MMA? No, he doesn't.

I can't compare Samart's career directly to Anderson Silva's. Not in an mma sense that is. I could only compare them as athletes, and comment on their abilities regarding their respective achievements. I can't look at how will Samart performed in a fight where grappling is limited, or not allowed, and compare it with a fighter that is fighting under different circumstances.

I wish that they would have come up with something better than "mma," but they didn't. Now we're stuck sorting it out.
Your the first name on my "who to consullt in a verbal dilemma" scenario.

I realise Silva is a highly decorated figghter, but only in one discipline "MMA". Therefore I wouldn't bother comapring him to one of the most natural fighters the wordl has ever produced, Samart who was a four time Lumpinee belt holder in the toughest divisons of the toughest era of MT possibly ever and a WBC Junior Featherweight Boxing champ to boot! No comparison can be made.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:22 PM   #66
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

Wow....reading the both of you, Rek and Borankk it's so interesting...keep doing it.. !
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:28 PM   #67
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

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Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
I hate the term ''workoholic'' Whoever came up with that shit was not very clever. If you have an alcohol consumption problem, you are an alcoholic. Notice that alcoholic is simply alcohol with ic attached. Wouldn't you actually be a workic? I even disagree with spell-check in this paragraph. It's telling me that it should be workaholic instead of workoholic. They're stealing the oholic from alcoholic, and then misspelling it.
Brilliant. I spat out my vodka whilst reading that
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:33 PM   #68
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

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I realise Silva is a highly decorated figghter, but only in one discipline MMA
Is MMA generally considered one discipline by MT guys boran or is just that your won take on the deal?

On the subject of Anderson Id say he's a Muay Thai guy with supplementary Jiu Jitsu. I think the only two who have mastered MMA, that is capable of fighting to a high standard in the stand up, clinch, and on the ground are GSP and Fedor
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:00 PM   #69
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

In the same way that if a guy is not from a BJJ background he is never going to win the Mundials at Black Belt or a non Wrestler win the Olympics an MMA fighter cannot cross over into boxing.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:15 PM   #70
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

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Originally Posted by Ne5ville14 View Post
Wow....reading the both of you, Rek and Borankk it's so interesting...keep doing it.. !
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Originally Posted by Stoo View Post
Brilliant. I spat out my vodka whilst reading that
Thanks, guys! Much appreciated.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:27 PM   #71
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

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Is MMA generally considered one discipline by MT guys boran or is just that your won take on the deal?

On the subject of Anderson Id say he's a Muay Thai guy with supplementary Jiu Jitsu. I think the only two who have mastered MMA, that is capable of fighting to a high standard in the stand up, clinch, and on the ground are GSP and Fedor
I think these days yeah most pure MT guys see “MMA” as a discipline in its own right. The “MMA” movement has developed into a highly professional and organised sport made up of ambitious top flight athletes who train and fight very hard, which commands respect.

I can only really speak for myself but on the whole I think most MT guys recognise there is an elite level of maybe a handful of talented fighters that can put it all together and perform at the top tier on both their feet and the mat. We have absolute respect for “MMA” guys as they fight and train just as hard as any MT guys although we kind of see the larger bulk of fighters as “Jacks of all trades and masters of none” if you get my jist without sounding rude. What I mean by that is the sport these days seems to be occupied by a larger % of guys from grappling backgrounds and not proper striking ones, guys that have excelled in the worlds of Judo, Wrestling, BJJ etc. but not too many guys that have excelled in worlds of MT, Kickboxing or Boxing. Hence the grappling you see on display is excellent, however the striking and maybe more so the fighter’s reaction to striking is pretty piss poor in your average “MMA” fight. I kind of do enjoy watching “MMA” and surprisingly it’s the grapping I enjoy watching even though I know **** all about it, I can’t really get into the striking aspect of MMA as most of it is pretty mediocre especially the way a lot of the grappling guys go into panic stations anytime some heavy blows are thrown.

Most MT guys also realise it’s still a very new sport/discipline and is still evolving all the time with the general standard also increasing at a very fast pace. If the striking can ever get to the standard of the grappling what a spectacle it’ll be. And before anyone jumps all over my nuts with specific examples I do realise a few fighters are great strikers, however it seems most are not.

I’m not the pure the “MMA” virgin I sometimes make myself out to be as in the 90s when the sport was emerging I did check it out, the idea fascinated and scared me all at the same time. The idea of no weight classes! Kicking men when their down? Stamping on their heads? I never ever entertained the idea of getting involved it just held a strange curious fascination for me, anyway I was way too wrapped up chasing Muay Thai dreams and trying to get to Thailand. Anyway the guys in the UK that seemed to dig “No Holds Barred” were mostly roided bouncer types not my kind of guys at all, remember Lee Hadsell?!?! So it wasn’t really for me. I’ve never been interested in any other sports other than combat sports so when I needed a break from MT I did follow “MMA” as best I could in the early days with rather expensive videos tapes that I used to have to track down in all sorts of odd places and shops, most of the stuff was from Russia and other European countries with obviously the early UFC stuff. I used to hate that mofo Royce Gracie and hate the way that without any strikes the guy could win fights, **** me that was a new concept to most MT guys at the time. I used to shout at the TV and get really really angry boy did I want Shamrock to **** him up! Then I went off the BKK and never really looked back and never even really heard of it again until in about 2002-2003 all the bars out there would show the UFC on the satellite channels and about that time Bangkok fight club opened, I think one of the first MMA gyms out there. It all seemed very far away and abit of a joke, boy how things have changed!

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In the same way that if a guy is not from a BJJ background he is never going to win the Mundials at Black Belt or a non Wrestler win the Olympics an MMA fighter cannot cross over into boxing.
I get what you’re saying, but have to disagree. As I’ve kept mentioning in the above thread (sorry if it’s getting old guys but I must be on ignore or something ) if what you say's true how do you explain guys Like Somluck Khamsing, a top flight MT fighter who takes a break from his MT career to go to the Atlanta Olympics and win a Gold medal in boxing and there have been others form Thailand. What about Samart Payakaroon 4 time Lumpinee belt holder who also takes a break from his MT career to become WBC junior featherweight Champ in 1986? There are loads of these guys.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:02 PM   #72
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

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I get what youíre saying, but have to disagree. As Iíve kept mentioning in the above thread (sorry if itís getting old guys but I must be on ignore or something ) if what you say's true how do you explain guys Like Somluck Khamsing, a top flight MT fighter who takes a break from his MT career to go to the Atlanta Olympics and win a Gold medal in boxing and there have been others form Thailand. What about Samart Payakaroon 4 time Lumpinee belt holder who also takes a break from his MT career to become WBC junior featherweight Champ in 1986? There are loads of these guys.
The main difference is that Muay Thai is closer to boxing than Sport BJJ or Amatuer wrestling are to BJJ in MMA or wrestling in MMA.

Sport BJJ in particular is a whole different ball game and you have to be from that background these days to be able to compete at the highest level, especially in a GI.

The reason being grappling with strikes and pure grappling look nothing alike at all. The guards used in sport BJJ are numerous and complex and are useless in MMA, but when you take punches out of it they become deadly. See what happens when you take the best MMA grappler at 155lbs and have him roll with Rafael Mendes he will get turned inside out if Mendes is going 1/2 pace.

That is from a grappling perspective, which is my thing.

From a striking perspective especially boxing it is basically a time thing, look at the time even the very best boxer in MMA has dedicated to boxing, say JDS and then look at the time a guy like Waldo at the same age had spent, there is no comparison.

In a limited sport like boxing where the skillset is so specialised its going to be damn near impossible to make up that time spent.

Where as in MT, if your forte is your hands for example then switching to boxing would be easier as you would spend the majority of your training, training your best wepons. Obviously I don't know of this applies to the guys you mentioned.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:03 PM   #73
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When I say 1/2 pace against Mendes I mean it, litterally he will do things grappling they do not know the names of let alone the counter to.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:15 PM   #74
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

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The main difference is that Muay Thai is closer to boxing than Sport BJJ or Amatuer wrestling are to BJJ in MMA or wrestling in MMA.

Sport BJJ in particular is a whole different ball game and you have to be from that background these days to be able to compete at the highest level, especially in a GI.

The reason being grappling with strikes and pure grappling look nothing alike at all. The guards used in sport BJJ are numerous and complex and are useless in MMA, but when you take punches out of it they become deadly. See what happens when you take the best MMA grappler at 155lbs and have him roll with Rafael Mendes he will get turned inside out if Mendes is going 1/2 pace.

That is from a grappling perspective, which is my thing.

From a striking perspective especially boxing it is basically a time thing, look at the time even the very best boxer in MMA has dedicated to boxing, say JDS and then look at the time a guy like Waldo at the same age had spent, there is no comparison.

In a limited sport like boxing where the skillset is so specialised its going to be damn near impossible to make up that time spent.

Where as in MT, if your forte is your hands for example then switching to boxing would be easier as you would spend the majority of your training, training your best wepons. Obviously I don't know of this applies to the guys you mentioned.
Good post.

I know nothing about anything involving mats, Gi and rash gaurds so I'm in your hands on all that, and you make a good case. What you say about time I totally agree with, this is my main grip with "MMA" guys in general ,I understand why they can and never strike like pure strikers and that's mostly because of time spent on thier backs in additon to thier strike training.

It's partly true what you're saying about MT to Boxing. Similar ring, similar format, similar training enviroment nad techniques some shared skills and training etc. etc. But in reality for Thais who have learnt a particular way of doing things from a very very very young age converting even to K1 style kickboxing isn't that easy, let alone boxing. On face value it looks like an easy transiton, but really isn't. I know first hand just how hard it is being an MT guy with good hands who's been a sparring partner for a top flight Thai western stlyed boxer.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:07 PM   #75
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Default Re: Has there ever been an MMA fighter who cross over to boxing?

Butterbean is probably the best boxer in MMA, atleast he's the hardest hitter.
But he went from Boxing to MMA.
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