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Old 08-20-2012, 09:28 PM   #31
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Default Re: Mistakes Roy Jones Made?

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Roy himself regrets his poor defensive habits.

Ask him. To his face. He'll tell you.

He's pretty good natured about it, just give him credit for being the animal and the freak he used to be.

The fastest fighter of all time, who builds his entire game around that speed, is understandably not going to be much when it starts to leave him.

When Roy lost his legs, he lost his elite success. That is the long and short of it. When he could no longer make a shot hit air, he started to have trouble not getting beat up by better guys.
Good post Magna, have you talked to him much then, any more tidbits?
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:41 PM   #32
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I always thought Jones footwork was pretty textbook and unflashy.It was in the upperbody punch slipping and angles plus punch selection that he was unorthodox in(not mistakes per se)and though nothing too technical, he did have a solid understanding of covering up with his gloves, especially on the ropes.

He was never really that supple or loose in the upperbody.It was mostly a brilliant sense of range with solid footwork allied to excellent power + speed + cautious approach when fighting anyone with a pulse that kept him out of harms way.He never arrogantly invited punches or stayed needlessly within punching range like many reflexively giftd natural talents did(Ali, Graham, Nunn etc)
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:18 PM   #33
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Default Re: Mistakes Roy Jones Made?

Leading with leaping left hooks and uppercuts, but he was so quick, he got away with it.

Last edited by FCB; 08-22-2012 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:36 PM   #34
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Default Re: Mistakes Roy Jones Made?

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Turned away from the left hook with his eyes closed at times. It's become a lot more evident these days though, but I did notice it from time to time in his prime years.
Interesting you say that. What I observed is that Roy turned his head away from the jab while slipping/pulling straight back too far at times. It's what got him dropped against Del Valle.

For the most part, Roy knew rules and broke them to his advantage. Once his athleticism faded, his habitual tricks lost their illusion and became liabilities. Backing up into a corner/the ropes while shelling up was a horrible habit he's shown since Tarver 1; his loss of mobility has been devastating for him. Although he did show pretty good ring generalship against Ledbedev, up to the KO.

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I always thought Jones footwork was pretty textbook and unflashy.It was in the upperbody punch slipping and angles plus punch selection that he was unorthodox in(not mistakes per se)and though nothing too technical, he did have a solid understanding of covering up with his gloves, especially on the ropes.

He was never really that supple or loose in the upperbody.It was mostly a brilliant sense of range with solid footwork allied to excellent power + speed + cautious approach when fighting anyone with a pulse that kept him out of harms way.He never arrogantly invited punches or stayed needlessly within punching range like many reflexively giftd natural talents did(Ali, Graham, Nunn etc)
Great points. Jones used intuition to anticipate counters, rather than reflexes alone to escape them last-minute. His awareness of range, distance, and placement were amazing. I don't doubt for a second his father made him box with one hand tied behind his back numerous times.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:46 PM   #35
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Default Re: Mistakes Roy Jones Made?

During his prime, he would have been a fool to box according to the book and negate his immense physical advantages of speed, reflexes and power. And as he was essentially undefeated during his prime, I would say he did nothing wrong. What is wrong for others was not for him.
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:32 AM   #36
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Default Re: Mistakes Roy Jones Made?

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1. The mistake is actually arguably worse, jabs against a southpaw and misses, moves into a square on position to jab again to leave himself open to a straight left that Nunn walks into. Fundamentally wrong against a southpaw

2. Well yes, but many fighters make technical errors, not just Jones, as mentioned the technically excellent Kalambay makes a similar error to the Tarver 2 fight.
Every fighter makes technical mistakes, but Jones made more than most ATGs.

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3. Yes it can, Ali at the same age was actually going to disputed decisions against Shavers and Young, neither particularly amazing boxers. If Ali didn't have a top class chin then Frazier, Shavers, Foreman and maybe Norton all would have knocked him out. It was chin not 'fundamentals' that stopped him getting ko'd.
Norton never tagged him hard enough to knock him out. And what many forget when talking about Ali's chin is that he almost always managed to roll with punches. He was very rarely caught cold. When he a fighter sees a punch and can roll with it he survives most punches, it's when he doesn't he's in real trouble.

But, yes, Ali took some monster shots from Frazier and Shavers, especially, and his chin saved him on several occassions. I actually don't think Foreman landed anything of that magnitude. He landed a very heavy right in rd 3 which Ali sys he was hurt by, but he saw it in time and managed to take away the worst by rolling with it.

EDIT: It should also be said that prime Holmes likely would be 0-2 against Shavers if not for his good chin and excellent recuperation powers. Shavers was never beaten by anyone with an average chin anywhere near his prime and neither was Frazier.

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4. Speed is nothing if you can't apply it for 3 minutes of a round while moving. Jones legs and stamina are shot.
With a better technique he'd get much more out of it. His leaping style requires young legs and tires old legs very quickly.

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5. Disagree, I'd say Ali has worse fundamentals than Jones. Jones has better technical punching technique, as in he plants his feet and turns his punches over better. Jones doesn't lean back with both hands down like Ali did, he was much better at bringing at least 1 hand up. Jones typically leans to the side more than straight back as Ali did (which is better).

Ali in his prime maybe used better lateral movement, but past his prime he didn't. Ali had a better jab, but he had long arms, Jones had short arms
The big difference here is that Ali almost always was in balance with feet properly placed. Didn't overreach as Jones frequently did, stepped in and out on opponents with excellent technique and behind a great jab, instead of Jones' leaps which kills your leg if they're not extraordinary. He also gave more angles, turned and pivoted in a more correct manner. The early rds of Frazier 1 and 3 are Ali at his best in terms of technically sound movement.

Last edited by Bokaj; 08-21-2012 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:39 AM   #37
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During his prime, he would have been a fool to box according to the book and negate his immense physical advantages of speed, reflexes and power. And as he was essentially undefeated during his prime, I would say he did nothing wrong. What is wrong for others was not for him.
During his prime it worked for him, yes. If he had had Lopez-like technique together with that speed, power and awareness he'd easily the best ever p4p, though, and would have lasted much longer.
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:35 AM   #38
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I always wondered 1 thing about him and it definately proved to be true; his ability to absorb punches.

When he was at 160, when did he actually absorb anything you would say are the kinds of punches that add up? Maybe Castro? I did not think hopkins landed effective punches in there. At 168, it was much the same---nobody forcing him to absorb anything. He's land early and these guys would play his game and just stay on the outside and accept their fate, if you will. What we did not have was a Collins or Eubank or another pedigreed opponent that was going to fire back in a millisecond. That's what I didn't see and I thought he was selecting sparring partners that had the same trait and would play the game.


at 175, much the same. I thought a 40 year old diminished skills McCallum should not last the distance. But he was not a guy to get out of there easy and it would take risk and pressing on the gaspedal to get rid of the guy. What that result indicated to me was a trait we saw later on--the frontrunner mentality. If Roy was ever going to get behind in a fight, he'd stay that way and use his defense to stay in there. but not his offense to take the risk of getting hit and absorbing in order to win the fight.

I just had the impression the guy was 95% offense and once he was going to absorb even a small amount, say 15 or 20%, it was going to be a huge subtraction from his game. I just never thought he was an Ali or Whitaker type guy that could absorb and win and hang tough and thought his durability was going to be like say a Mark Breland. Absorb for about 2 fights in his career and that's it. 2 fights absorption, than the ballgame changes so much losses occur in fights he wins easily in his youth.

Boxing is such a tough tough sport and it is a high wire act at all times and just how many guys are without their flaws? it's just their flaws can come from so many diffrent places, but once they rear their head, they just do not not go away.
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:52 AM   #39
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Default Re: Mistakes Roy Jones Made?

Roy clearly had massive respect for McCallum.
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:56 AM   #40
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Default Re: Mistakes Roy Jones Made?

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If Roy was ever going to get behind in a fight, he'd stay that way and use his defense to stay in there. but not his offense to take the risk of getting hit and absorbing in order to win the fight.
1st Tarver fight.
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:58 AM   #41
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Default Re: Mistakes Roy Jones Made?

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1st Tarver fight.
I thought he nicked it as well. So he was 1-2 against Tarver anyway!
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:01 AM   #42
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Default Re: Mistakes Roy Jones Made?

For sheer unparalleled joy as a fan you couldn't beat watching him do all that stuff and get away with it. He may be boxing's ultimate jaw-dropper. Only Locche and Louis are with him for just unbridalled joy in watching him box. And Roy did it all in glorious colour.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:44 AM   #43
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Default Re: Mistakes Roy Jones Made?

Roy never really became an elite technician. He had the ability too, but his natural talent was so great that he didn't need to be a great technician in his prime. He never really fought good technicians in his prime. I would have love to see him fight a guy like Reggie Johnson or McCallum when they weren't so old. I think guys like Frankie Lile and Michael Nunn would have caused Jones tons of trouble, and maybe this is why Jones didn't fight them.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:48 AM   #44
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Default Re: Mistakes Roy Jones Made?

Jones made a lot of technical mistakes of a traditional boxer, but his speed allowed him to when he was younger.

The single biggest mistake he made which caught up to him the quickest when he started to slow was backing straight up against the ropes and trying to block punches with his hands up. When he was younger he was slick enough to avoid power shots but as he slowed he was easier to hit cleaner. He was almost always knocked out close to the ropes or trying to anticipate blocking a power shot from his opponent.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:48 AM   #45
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Default Re: Mistakes Roy Jones Made?

Toney, Hill, Hopkins, all very technical fighters of different shapes and sizes. B-Hop's approach was technical even if he wasn't as refined as he'd become. Hill a bit past his best but where his jab? Nowhere.
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