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Old 08-21-2012, 07:21 PM   #16
Kittikasem
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by greathamza View Post
Still Sonnen being ranked #3 for what? His losing performances against Silva and a win over Bisping which many thought he lost and a win over Brian Stann who cant do shit on the ground. If chael was any good he would have subbed Stann in the first and not the second cuz Stann is just that bad on the ground
I think he ranks Sonnen #3 in his current 185 rankings because (a) Sonnen has only lost to the #1 mw in the past 3 years, (b) he has beaten two current top 10 guys in his last two non-title fights, Bisping & Stann, (c) the two guys he beat before that were also top 10 at the time, quality mw's Marquardt & Okami, (d) in both fights with the #1 mw he showed he is a very strong and effective mw fighter, even though not quite championship quality.

That's enough to be considered #3, no? Who from below him has a better claim at being one of the top 3?
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
I think he ranks Sonnen #3 in his current 185 rankings because (a) Sonnen has only lost to the #1 mw in the past 3 years, (b) he has beaten two current top 10 guys in his last two non-title fights, Bisping & Stann, (c) the two guys he beat before that were also top 10 at the time, quality mw's Marquardt & Okami, (d) in both fights with the #1 mw he showed he is a very strong and effective mw fighter, even though not quite championship quality.

That's enough to be considered #3, no? Who from below him has a better claim at being one of the top 3?
Chris Wideman, Belcher, Bisping
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by greathamza View Post
Chris Wideman, Belcher, Bisping
None of those guys have been in a UFC title fight, let alone dominated 5 out of 7 rounds against the GOAT 185er.

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Old 08-21-2012, 09:30 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

I don't know If I can call someone who lost more or less 10x to submissions 2nd best ability-wise.

Based on the eye test though, I'd say Frank Shamrock.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:52 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
None of those guys have been in a UFC title fight, let alone dominated 5 out of 7 rounds against the GOAT 185er.

Sonnen had enough testosterone for anywhere to 4-16.9 men for the majority those rounds. I think the 1st win was more of a feather in Silva's cap personally. I do not see it as any moral win by Sonnen. Sonnen cheated and still he was literally being killed at the end.

Weidman beat Maia. That is something Sonnen could not do.

Belcher can finish a Brazilian. Sonnen has lost to every Brazilian he has ever faced, though he did manage to decision one of those same fighters.

Many thought he was beaten by Bisping. I did not watch enough of that fight to give a score. I will say that if I thought Bisping won, I would not base my ratings upon the official score. I would base it on who I thought won.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:46 AM   #21
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
None of those guys have been in a UFC title fight, let alone dominated 5 out of 7 rounds against the GOAT 185er.

But they still have made better cases for themselves for being ahead of Sonnen and him being on so much gear that his eyeballs almost poped out and the losing isnt something to be seen as an achievement
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:56 AM   #22
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Sonnen had enough testosterone for anywhere to 4-16.9 men for the majority those rounds. I think the 1st win was more of a feather in Silva's cap personally. I do not see it as any moral win by Sonnen. Sonnen cheated and still he was literally being killed at the end.

Weidman beat Maia. That is something Sonnen could not do.

Belcher can finish a Brazilian. Sonnen has lost to every Brazilian he has ever faced, though he did manage to decision one of those same fighters.

Many thought he was beaten by Bisping. I did not watch enough of that fight to give a score. I will say that if I thought Bisping won, I would not base my ratings upon the official score. I would base it on who I thought won.


Enough said. Sonnen is a cheating cunt and doesn't deserve all the ****in hype he has !
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:53 PM   #23
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

Vitor or Sonnen.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
Sonnen had enough testosterone for anywhere to 4-16.9 men for the majority those rounds. I think the 1st win was more of a feather in Silva's cap personally. I do not see it as any moral win by Sonnen. Sonnen cheated and still he was literally being killed at the end.

Weidman beat Maia. That is something Sonnen could not do.

Belcher can finish a Brazilian. Sonnen has lost to every Brazilian he has ever faced, though he did manage to decision one of those same fighters.

Many thought he was beaten by Bisping. I did not watch enough of that fight to give a score. I will say that if I thought Bisping won, I would not base my ratings upon the official score. I would base it on who I thought won.
This, and winning rounds don't mean shit if you don't win the fight.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:55 PM   #25
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by greathamza View Post
Chris Wideman, Belcher, Bisping
I think Vitor would KO every one of those guys.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:02 PM   #26
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by greathamza View Post
Chris Wideman, Belcher, Bisping
Obviously, Weidman and Bisping don't have any case for being ranked above Sonnen right now. Weidman's only win over a top 10 fighter is Munoz, whereas Sonnen has two recently, Bisping and Stann, and more in the past (Marquardt, Okami).

And how are you going to rank Bisping over Sonnen when Sonnen beat Bisping and has beaten numerous fighters better than anyone Bisping has ever beat? (Marquardt, Okami, Stann)

I ****ing hate Sonnen, but you're not being objective/rational.
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:09 PM   #27
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
Obviously, Weidman and Bisping don't have any case for being ranked above Sonnen right now. Weidman's only win over a top 10 fighter is Munoz, whereas Sonnen has two recently, Bisping and Stann, and more in the past (Marquardt, Okami).

And how are you going to rank Bisping over Sonnen when Sonnen beat Bisping and has beaten numerous fighters better than anyone Bisping has ever beat? (Marquardt, Okami, Stann)

I ****ing hate Sonnen, but you're not being objective/rational.
How can you rank him over him currently, or in an all time sense? I assume you mean all time because you are looking for the 2nd best the division has ever created.

I will say that it would be easy to rank Bisping above Sonnen in your current rankings if you think Bisping won their fight. I don't have an opinion on that score card, as I did not score that fight in its entirety. Had I scored it for Bisping, I would rank Bisping higher. I don't glorify the judges when I think they made a mistake.
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
I will say that it would be easy to rank Bisping above Sonnen in your current rankings if you think Bisping won their fight. I don't have an opinion on that score card, as I did not score that fight in its entirety. Had I scored it for Bisping, I would rank Bisping higher. I don't glorify the judges when I think they made a mistake.
I just don't understand the debate over Sonnen-Bisping. Sonnen won rounds 1 and 3. End of discussion as I see it. Sonnen dominated round 3 with ease, and clearly won a competitive opening round. I do not see the argument for an alternative scoring of that fight, genuinely don't.
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:13 PM   #29
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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I just don't understand the debate over Sonnen-Bisping. Sonnen won rounds 1 and 3. End of discussion as I see it. Sonnen dominated round 3 with ease, and clearly won a competitive opening round. I do not see the argument for an alternative scoring of that fight, genuinely don't.
That's fine. I did not see enough of the fight to score it. I was in and out of the room a lot on that bout, and have since lost the recording.
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:46 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by BewareofDawg View Post
I think Vitor would KO every one of those guys.
I have Vitor a head of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
Obviously, Weidman and Bisping don't have any case for being ranked above Sonnen right now. Weidman's only win over a top 10 fighter is Munoz, whereas Sonnen has two recently, Bisping and Stann, and more in the past (Marquardt, Okami).

And how are you going to rank Bisping over Sonnen when Sonnen beat Bisping and has beaten numerous fighters better than anyone Bisping has ever beat? (Marquardt, Okami, Stann)

I ****ing hate Sonnen, but you're not being objective/rational.
CW had a win over Maia before Munoz and Maia was in the top 10 at the time he had lost a SD to Munoz before that.
Bisping IMO won over Bisping and in many others eyes too but Sonnen got the win over him most probably becouse of a Sonnen/Silva fight was a better income than Bisping/Silva would have been at the time.
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