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Old 08-22-2012, 06:32 PM   #31
Kittikasem
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by greathamza View Post
I have Vitor a head of them.


CW had a win over Maia before Munoz and Maia was in the top 10 at the time he had lost a SD to Munoz before that.
Bisping IMO won over Bisping and in many others eyes too but Sonnen got the win over him most probably becouse of a Sonnen/Silva fight was a better income than Bisping/Silva would have been at the time.
So in terms of top 10 wins at mw...

Weidman has beaten Maia and Munoz.

Sonnen has beaten Bisping, Marquardt, Okami and Stann.

Sonnen has better credentials for a high ranking at mw than Weidman does at this time IMO.

If you rank those six opponents in terms of quality, I'd go with...

Marquardt
Bisping
Munoz (unsure of who'd win between Munoz and Okami, but will edge with Munoz)
Okami
Stann
Maia

So Sonnen has beaten the better mw's over the past couple of years, as I see it.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:54 PM   #32
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
So in terms of top 10 wins at mw...

Weidman has beaten Maia and Munoz.

Sonnen has beaten Bisping, Marquardt, Okami and Stann.

Sonnen has better credentials for a high ranking at mw than Weidman does at this time IMO.

If you rank those six opponents in terms of quality, I'd go with...

Marquardt
Bisping
Munoz (unsure of who'd win between Munoz and Okami, but will edge with Munoz)
Okami
Stann
Maia

So Sonnen has beaten the better mw's over the past couple of years, as I see it.
He is also coming of a loss which CW isnt thus he goes back down the rankings you cant be ranked #3 loss a fight then still have the same ranking it doesnt work that way
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:04 PM   #33
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by greathamza View Post
He is also coming of a loss which CW isnt thus he goes back down the rankings you cant be ranked #3 loss a fight then still have the same ranking it doesnt work that way
I disagree. So every UFC mw who isn't coming off a loss is suddenly a better mw than Sonnen because he just lost to Anderson Silva? Nah. Weidman may be closer to a title shot than Sonnen because Sonnen only just had one, but what Weidman has done recently doesn't merit him being ranked higher than Sonnen IMO. Sonnen has beaten more fighters and better fighters, as things stand.
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:38 AM   #34
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
I disagree. So every UFC mw who isn't coming off a loss is suddenly a better mw than Sonnen because he just lost to Anderson Silva? Nah. Weidman may be closer to a title shot than Sonnen because Sonnen only just had one, but what Weidman has done recently doesn't merit him being ranked higher than Sonnen IMO. Sonnen has beaten more fighters and better fighters, as things stand.
If for example Silva was to lose a fight then he woudlnt be P4P #1 anymore he goes down in the rankings. The same goes for every division just like the MW division Sonnen lost and fell down the ranking system
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:09 AM   #35
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
How can you rank him over him currently, or in an all time sense? I assume you mean all time because you are looking for the 2nd best the division has ever created.

I will say that it would be easy to rank Bisping above Sonnen in your current rankings if you think Bisping won their fight. I don't have an opinion on that score card, as I did not score that fight in its entirety. Had I scored it for Bisping, I would rank Bisping higher. I don't glorify the judges when I think they made a mistake.
Bisping is 8-3 at middleweight right? I'm looking on Sherdog and trying to figure out when he moved to middle. i think after the Rashad loss. And he has lost to every top 5 fighter he has ever faced 3 fights ago the guy was fighting Jorge Rivera.

It' silly to rank him above Sonnen, on any criteria. And he didn't win there fight. He did nothing of significance in the fight.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:15 AM   #36
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by greathamza View Post
If for example Silva was to lose a fight then he woudlnt be P4P #1 anymore he goes down in the rankings. The same goes for every division just like the MW division Sonnen lost and fell down the ranking system
If #2 loses to #1, #3 doesnt automatically get the #2 ranking. That makes no sense.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:52 AM   #37
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Bisping is 8-3 at middleweight right? I'm looking on Sherdog and trying to figure out when he moved to middle. i think after the Rashad loss. And he has lost to every top 5 fighter he has ever faced 3 fights ago the guy was fighting Jorge Rivera.

It' silly to rank him above Sonnen, on any criteria. And he didn't win there fight. He did nothing of significance in the fight.
I already posted that I didn't watch all of the fight. I didn't claim Bisping won. There are others saying that.

But it would be stupid to rank Sonnen over Bisping if you thought Bisping beat him. That would be like me trying to tell you Ben Henderson is the best lightweight in the world with a straight face.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:38 AM   #38
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
I already posted that I didn't watch all of the fight. I didn't claim Bisping won. There are others saying that.

But it would be stupid to rank Sonnen over Bisping if you thought Bisping beat him. That would be like me trying to tell you Ben Henderson is the best lightweight in the world with a straight face.
I agree Frankie won the last fight. But Hendo won the 1st fight more clearly. I do think Hendo is the best LW though.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:39 AM   #39
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
I already posted that I didn't watch all of the fight. I didn't claim Bisping won. There are others saying that.

But it would be stupid to rank Sonnen over Bisping if you thought Bisping beat him. That would be like me trying to tell you Ben Henderson is the best lightweight in the world with a straight face.
And my bad, i misread or just read too quickly.
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:22 PM   #40
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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And my bad, i misread or just read too quickly.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:24 PM   #41
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
So in terms of top 10 wins at mw...

Weidman has beaten Maia and Munoz.

Sonnen has beaten Bisping, Marquardt, Okami and Stann.

Sonnen has better credentials for a high ranking at mw than Weidman does at this time IMO.

If you rank those six opponents in terms of quality, I'd go with...

Marquardt
Bisping
Munoz (unsure of who'd win between Munoz and Okami, but will edge with Munoz)
Okami
Stann
Maia

So Sonnen has beaten the better mw's over the past couple of years, as I see it.
Okami beat both Marquardt and Munoz by decision before getting smashed by Silva.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:45 PM   #42
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Originally Posted by greathamza View Post
If for example Silva was to lose a fight then he woudlnt be P4P #1 anymore he goes down in the rankings. The same goes for every division just like the MW division Sonnen lost and fell down the ranking system
Yeah, but the question is "Who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185?"

Sonnen doesn't exactly have a sparkling record, but it's better than Weidman's in terms of opponents faced and beaten. At least, right now it is.

And for the record, I don't have Chael at #2. I don't think it's clear-cut, but I put Rich in second spot until somebody else steps up in the post-Anderson era.

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Old 08-23-2012, 05:27 PM   #43
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

This card got hijacked by people talking about the current mw rankings.

To get back to the thread topic, I'd say it's a straight fight between the best version of Hendo at 185, and the best version of Belfort at 185.

Although Hendo beat him in Pride (above mw), I think I'd give the edge to Belfort, strictly based on mw performances. I think Hendo was always better as a lhw, even though he's pretty small there.

I expect Belfort to succeed Anderson eventually (unless Machida moves down).
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:28 PM   #44
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

duplicate post "lol"

Last edited by Kittikasem; 08-23-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:42 PM   #45
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Default Re: Ability-wise, who has proved to be the 2nd best fighter ever at 185lbs?

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Chris Weidman. Says a lot about the division when it's an upstart. This guy comes along 10 years earlier and Anderson goes the way of Rich Franklin.
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