Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


View Poll Results: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?
Johnson wins one 1 7.14%
Johnson wins two 7 50.00%
Johnson wins three 3 21.43%
Johnson wins all four matches. 3 21.43%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-21-2012, 06:21 AM   #1
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,102
vCash: 1000
Default How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches? Assume 15 rounds, a 20 x 20 ring, and a rule set that allows excessive clinching to tip the odds in Johnsonís favor.


Vs. Jack Dempsey


Vs. Gene Tunney


Vs. Joe Louis


Vs. Rocky Marciano
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-21-2012, 07:10 AM   #2
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,605
vCash: 330
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

I think he beats Demspey definitely. I slightly favour him over Tunney but I wouldn't be confident.

Louis and Rocky would both beat him on points.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 07:38 AM   #3
Stevie G
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London,England
Posts: 9,201
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

Dempsey and Tunney - Johnson on points.

Marciano - Marciano on points.

Louis - Louis by late round stoppage.
Stevie G is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 07:49 AM   #4
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,035
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

These aren't his predecessors. They are some of his successor.

He'd be tough for Louis, but I believe Louis would get there.

Marciano would beat him on points.

Dempsey, I'd say he's close to 50.50.

Tunney is a very interesting fight. Very interesting.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 07:52 AM   #5
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,272
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches? Assume 15 rounds, a 20 x 20 ring, and a rule set that allows excessive clinching to tip the odds in Johnsonís favor.


Vs. Jack Dempsey


Vs. Gene Tunney


Vs. Joe Louis


Vs. Rocky Marciano
I like him to beat all four by decision. Tunney would be stylistically tough.

Louis is problematical in how he deals with his excellent jab , but come forward bangers such as Dempsey ,and Marciano did not fare well against Johnson.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 07:54 AM   #6
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,272
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
These aren't his predecessors. They are some of his successor.

He'd be tough for Louis, but I believe Louis would get there.

Marciano would beat him on points.

Dempsey, I'd say he's close to 50.50.

Tunney is a very interesting fight. Very interesting.
This is what attracted me originally ,since he beat past prime versions of two of his predecessors.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 08:06 AM   #7
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,605
vCash: 330
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

Is anyone else getting high on Tunney lately? it seems he's rising through my rankings on a daily basis and I can't really explain it
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 08:08 AM   #8
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,272
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Is anyone else getting high on Tunney lately? it seems he's rising through my rankings on a daily basis and I can't really explain it
I think he looks excellent on film ,the problem with "The Marine" is the lack of depth at heavyweight on his resume.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 08:13 AM   #9
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,605
vCash: 330
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
I think he looks excellent on film ,the problem with "The Marine" is the lack of depth at heavyweight on his resume.
yeah it's pretty much just: Dempsey, Greb, Gibbons, Risko, Weinert.

I wish he'd have fought Wills and Sharkey so we could have had a better gauge of his abilities with the bigger men. But I agree on film he looks amazing, seems he can do it all.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 10:29 AM   #10
apollack
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches? Assume 15 rounds, a 20 x 20 ring, and a rule set that allows excessive clinching to tip the odds in Johnsonís favor.


Vs. Jack Dempsey


Vs. Gene Tunney


Vs. Joe Louis


Vs. Rocky Marciano

Jack Johnson is the fighter you root against, because you cannot stand his style. But he's also the fighter that you don't bet against, because he gives everyone big troubles. These guys with pretty styles who may look tremendous against most everyone else, well, they get in there with Johnson, and suddenly it is an entirely different ball game, and everyone is wondering why they can't get off or land anything, and they are getting gradually picked apart, pecked, poked, and surprisingly jolted in a semi-dull fight. Just think B-Hop with even more strength and power.
apollack is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 11:37 AM   #11
Stevie G
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London,England
Posts: 9,201
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by apollack View Post
Jack Johnson is the fighter you root against, because you cannot stand his style. But he's also the fighter that you don't bet against, because he gives everyone big troubles. These guys with pretty styles who may look tremendous against most everyone else, well, they get in there with Johnson, and suddenly it is an entirely different ball game, and everyone is wondering why they can't get off or land anything, and they are getting gradually picked apart, pecked, poked, and surprisingly jolted in a semi-dull fight. Just think B-Hop with even more strength and power.

Johnson was way ahead of his time,fistically.
Stevie G is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 11:48 AM   #12
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,875
vCash: 75
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

Predecessors

Marciano would gladly outwork him while Johnson grabs him and throws the occasional chopping right hand. He'd slow Marciano down but this fight is going to be Marciano smother Johnson agains the ropes trying to hurt him while Johnson hugs him. Marciano 15 round decision

Dempsey to either bang Johnson out or get dragged into Johnson's game and lose on points. I'll go for the latter with some shaky moments for Johnson.

Louis would waste Johnson.

Tunney quicker, and he'll stay at his range. Johnson will find it pretty hard to get off I imagine. He'll have chance to work his way in but Tunney times his right hand down the middle and comes forward, but Tunney would reset if it got too hairy and has the chin to take the blows Johnson does sneak in. Tunney on points.

Adam Pollack puts it brilliantly though. I'm basing this on him looking horrid and whilst given him props for effectiveness it's the factt that when push comes to shove over the 12/15 round distance I think the fighters that came after Johnson had a more judge friendly style. Fight to the finish and let Johnson stink it out as much as he wants and I'd probably favour him against more of the very best.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 11:51 AM   #13
KuRuPT
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,824
vCash: 500
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

I see him beating Dempsey pretty comfortably once he gets past the fist 2 rounds.. which he would.

Tunney.. is a good stylistic fight and I think it would be a close fight... but Jack would get it done.

I've always believe Jack would beat Joe.. he hit hard enough to put Joe down.. and would do so.. and smart enough to not get hit with Joe's combos and savy enough to clinch when needed and do some of his good inside work. Good fight but Jack takes it.

I would give the best odds to Rocky... I just see him more active than all the others and thus I think he takes it on points. If there was a recipe to beat johnson it was REALLY acitve fghters. That is Rocky more so than all the others.
KuRuPT is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 06:20 AM   #14
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,102
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by apollack View Post
Jack Johnson is the fighter you root against, because you cannot stand his style. But he's also the fighter that you don't bet against, because he gives everyone big troubles. These guys with pretty styles who may look tremendous against most everyone else, well, they get in there with Johnson, and suddenly it is an entirely different ball game, and everyone is wondering why they can't get off or land anything, and they are getting gradually picked apart, pecked, poked, and surprisingly jolted in a semi-dull fight. Just think B-Hop with even more strength and power.
Thread should have read vs. “ Sucessors “ , and included an option for zero wins. I guess I have to post too early in the AM these days…

I have seen you compare Hopkins to Johnson, and I think they are very different in many respects. Luckily we have plenty of film on both for a compare and contrast.

Compare:

1 ) Both were good counter punchers who didn’t always engage.

2 ) Both could fight a little dirty

Contrast:

1 ) Hopkins has a high guard. Johnson does not.

2 ) Hopkins throws more punches on film. Johnson throws far less punches, and this would be a real problem in many fights, since he was not known for early stoppage wins.

3 ) Hopkins was often matched vs. class fighters in their prime. Johnson fought very few class fighters in their primes, and the one he did were MUCH smaller than him many cases. Johnson really did not accept matches as champion ( 1909-1915 ) vs. the best out there in Langford, Jeanette, Gunboat Smith, or McVey. When you in there with shorter, less skilled or past their prime opponents it’s not that hard to look good on defense. The lone man Johnson fought with skills was O’Brien, and his defense did very little here. So would any prime all time great heavy with skills really have a hard time landing on Johnson?

4 ) Johnson clinched far more than Hopkins did.

5 ) Hopkins fought guys his own size. Johnson seldom fought prime guys his own size or bigger yet when he did he lost to Hart and Willard, and for what’s it’s worth was whacked out in a 4 round sparring match vs. Gunboat Smith when Johnson was a champion in his prime. Smith of course was a white hope type only in name, not ability with wins over Willard and Moran…yet not title shot for him?

6 ) In a pound for pound sense, Hopkins was far more durable.

I agree, Johnson can frustrate very short heavies ( 5’7” burns, @168 pounds ) stationary super middle weight types ( Ketchel ), or short fringe contenders types ( Flynn ), but many could do the same. Any top heavyweight worth his weight in salt should blow these types out. Taking Ross the distance? Not impressed. Barely outpointing Moran? Not impressed.

I think Johnson would likely win one match here and lose there.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 07:22 AM   #15
bodhi
So I can die easy ...
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,491
vCash: 1337
Default Re: How would Jack Johnson fare vs. his predecessors in the following matches?

Johnson
Johnson
Louis
Marciano
bodhi is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013