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Old 01-25-2008, 12:53 PM   #61
Shadowbox39
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

For the record, since I got sidetracked with the Tito/Vargas arguement....back to the threads topic......I have said this before and I will say it again...I think DLH should be fighting Cotto in May...winner takes FM in Sept...that has always been my stance...I think Oscar has the right idea in mind in picking a small fast opponent to get him ready for FM....but he could just hire them as sparring partners....The only gripe I would have with a Forbes matchup would be if Oscar tried to KO him instead of using the fight as a tool for training...ie: Go the whole 12 rounds to work on his endurance and jab stamina.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:54 PM   #62
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk
When trinidad used mayorga as a comeback/tune up type fight... mayorga was still considered somewhat dangerous..... he still had never been hurt in a fight, and was only ONE fight after being the Welterweight champion of the world....

adding to that tito hadnt fought in two years himself, and nobody knew if his chin, power, stamina, or ANYTHING would be there to deal with mayorga...

i dont see how that can in any way be compared to hoya picking forbes as a fight....
Stuff it Kirk. you have become one of the biggest Tito nuthugger in recent times. After the way Tito unfairly brutulized Vargas you still have the odacity to root for Tito?!

All I'll say is this and I hope your hate for Oscar and your love for Tito don't continue to blind you.

WITHIN A YEAR Mayorga had lost to at 147 Spinks. He then announced his retirement. After that he came back to fight right away and failed to make weight to fight at 147, but in an attempt to salvage money they threw him in at 154 that ssame night only after him shedding a couple pounds to make Jr. MW, winning a sloppy and unbelievably pathetic fight against a REAL no-hoper.

Mayorga had been in jail prior to fighton TITO and was battling in court for an accusation of raping a women in Nicaragua. He needed special permission to leave the country and at times we thought the fight wouldn't come through. Mayorga fought under those conditions.

To sum it up: Within a year he lost to Spinks at 147, retired, came back, failed to make 147, threw a no hoper at 154 as a replacement match, went to jail, was in and out of courts for vias and accusations, fought Tito at 160 13 pounds higher than where he fought just a year before.

Now Oscar takes an f-ing Tune up against a very decent contender and you give him crap? Even after he's been fighting the best year after year after year! I don't know what to say Kirk, I thought you were more knowledgable. I still respect you as a person though.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:55 PM   #63
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowbox39
Yes he WAS taking damage from a guy trying to KO him quickly....but what DLH did to turn it around and win with pure boxing skill over might was what I call a clinic. After some of the power punches he took from Vargas most thought he was a done deal in that fight...but what he did to perservere in that fight was amazing.....you were probably shocked on your couch watching it...going, "I can't believe what he is doing to Vargas now after the punches he took..." (getting warm yet ) He essentially did what Tito has never done....beat a guy using nothing but pure skill when his power wasn't enough....as in case with the RJJ onesided loss last Sat night.
thats because oscar is not 1 dimensional like tito is...

at any rate... i have a serious question... is english your second language? im not being rude im honestly wondering...

because

winky vs tito... is a clinic
Hopkins vs tito... is a clinic
Hoya vs Campas... is a clinic
Hoya vs mayorga... is a clinic

oscar didnt win back to back rounds in the vargas fight until the 7th round man... i dont care how you cut it that aint no friggin clinic
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:56 PM   #64
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by UliUli
Stuff it Kirk. you have become one of the biggest Tito nuthugger in recent times. After the way Tito unfairly brutulized Vargas you still have the odacity to root for Tito?!

All I'll say is this and I hope your hate for Oscar and your love for Tito don't continue to blind you.

WITHIN A YEAR Mayorga had lost to at 147 Spinks. He then announced his retirement. After that he came back to fight right away and failed to make weight to fight at 147, but in an attempt to salvage money they threw him in at 154 that ssame night only after him shedding a couple pounds to make Jr. MW, winning a sloppy and unbelievably pathetic fight against a REAL no-hoper.

Mayorga had been in jail prior to fighton TITO and was battling in court for an accusation of raping a women in Nicaragua. He needed special permission to leave the country and at times we thought the fight wouldn't come through. Mayorga fought under those conditions.

To sum it up: Within a year he lost to Spinks at 147, retired, came back, failed to make 147, threw a no hoper at 154 as a replacement match, went to jail, was in and out of courts for vias and accusations, fought Tito at 160 13 pounds higher than where he fought just a year before.

Now Oscar takes an f-ing Tune up against a very decent contender and you give him crap? Even after he's been fighting the best year after year after year! I don't know what to say Kirk, I thought you were more knowledgable. I still respect you as a person though.
The Golden Fishnet has a history of fighting guys moving up in weight.

Trinidad does not.

That is the main difference.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:00 PM   #65
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk


Shadowbox... and im not trying to be rude here m'man but you have to learn a few things...

1 - Vargas took a life and career altering beating at the hands of tito. Do you realise he doesnt remember that whole fight? He was not just knocked off balance a few times, he was hit so hard that his brain stopped working and he hit the deck... and took brutal shots for a period of over a half an hour...

how in the world are you gonna compare the damage a person takes to the likes of what hoya did to tito? or wright?

that makes completely no sense at all... vargas was hospitalized after the tito fight bigtime...
Vargas was hospitalized after the DLH. Vargas was nearly carried to his lockeroom after the DLH fight.

Does Fractured cheek bone ring a bell Kirk? Does it? Vargas is lucky Oscar didn't kill him with that left hook. Infact Oscar took it easy on Oscar when he had him pinned on the corner right before Cortez jumped in and you know it. Oscar knew Vargas was done and knew all he had to do was throw straight soft punches rather than killing him with more left hooks.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:04 PM   #66
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk

oscar didnt win back to back rounds in the vargas fight until the 7th round man... i dont care how you cut it that aint no friggin clinic
Kirk, Oscar had a great game plan and used it very effectively against Vargas. He broke Vargas down. The only round where I say Vargas dominated was the 9th. I agree Vargas won round 1 narrowly, 3, 5 and 9.

Had Vargas not been juiced DLH would have probably beat him faster and easier.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:06 PM   #67
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

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im not holding anything against ya cuz honestly i can see your eather young or a new fan...
Actually, you are wrong on both accounts, though I will hold nothing against you either. It just becomes tiresome hearing you all negate anything DLH did well! Regardless of who you think Vargas became after the Tito fight, he was punching well against DLH and hurt him a few times in the early goings....you can't change that fact....also, you can't change the fact that DLH did put on a great performance, showcasing (NOT POWER) but skill in overcoming his stronger opponent! (What part of that are you argueing with????) And my comparison of Tito and Vargas that you call way out in left field was about their mental status....though different effects...one getting physically battered doubting his heart/chin and the other doubting his boxing skillz against elite fighters his power has no effect on......CASING POINT: Tito's last round against RJJ...he was content to just finish the round out without going all out for a possible win by KO????? Tell me he wasn't doubting himself in that one!
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:10 PM   #68
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Quote:
Vargas was hospitalized after the DLH. Vargas was nearly carried to his lockeroom after the DLH fight.

Does Fractured cheek bone ring a bell Kirk? Does it? Vargas is lucky Oscar didn't kill him with that left hook. Infact Oscar took it easy on Oscar when he had him pinned on the corner right before Cortez jumped in and you know it. Oscar knew Vargas was done and knew all he had to do was throw straight soft punches rather than killing him with more left hooks.
Wasting your time bro....they will no doubt give the credit for that to Tito as well.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:16 PM   #69
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by UliUli
Stuff it Kirk.
oook..

Quote:
Originally Posted by UliUli
you have become one of the biggest Tito nuthugger in recent times.
After the way Tito unfairly brutulized Vargas you still have the odacity to root for Tito?!
you gotta be kidding me uli...

i rooted for tito in one fight of his life... against roy jones when tito came to fight and roy came to peck away against a smaller, slower, less powerful fighter 20lbs above his best weight and 3 years gone... with tito trying so hard to get roy out and roy just dancing and shit... i couldnt root for roy.. name one other fight ive ever rooted for tito in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UliUli
Mayorga had been in jail prior to fighton TITO and was battling in court for an accusation of raping a women in Nicaragua. He needed special permission to leave the country and at times we thought the fight wouldn't come through. Mayorga fought under those conditions.
your exactly right and i wish more people would realise this... this is why mayorga was huffing and puffing in the 6th round... but has nothing to do with titos selection of mayorga AT THE TIME... its not his fault nor did he know when he signed to fight him that mayorga wasnt gonna be good to go and 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by UliUli
To sum it up: Within a year he lost to Spinks at 147, retired, came back, failed to make 147, threw a no hoper at 154 as a replacement match, went to jail, was in and out of courts for vias and accusations, fought Tito at 160 13 pounds higher than where he fought just a year before.
- Lost to spinks at 147 (losing the WW title to spinks in a championship fight is better then anything forbes has done)

- failed to make 147 again

---------------------------------
bam

his courtroom drama has NOTHING TO DO with tito.... when tito picked to fight mayorga as a return/tune up fight... AT THE TIME it was a much better fight and more respected opponent then forbes... just because legal matters ensued (which tito didnt even KNOW about, and then when he found out... and when he found out in camp he said he believes mayorga just wants him to think he isnt training so he will slack)


as it stood when tito signed to fight mayorga... and it was announced... mayorga was a much more respecftul and dangerous opponent for a guy who hadnt faught in almost TWO YEARS...

just because mayorga lost his title and failed to make 147 in no way, shape, or form, does that make him any less of a choice then freaking FORBES.....

forbes... for gods sakes...

and he fought tito 13lbs above where he was a year earlier... (again... one fight after losing his welterweight crown)

and forbes if fighting 14lbs above where he was in his LAST FIGHT... the weight change for both forbes and mayorga IS THE SAME so i dont know why you even bring up weight as if tito did something to mayorga that hoya isnt doing to forbes. and he has NEVER even BEEN a champion... like you said... hes a contender. mayorga was a fight away from being the champ... because he fails to make 147 all of a sudden he dips below a forbes fight???


and tito hadnt even been in a ring for two years... this wasnt just a tune up to a superfight... it was a COMEBACK fight...



Quote:
Originally Posted by UliUli
Now Oscar takes an f-ing Tune up against a very decent contender and you give him crap? Even after he's been fighting the best year after year after year! I don't know what to say Kirk, I thought you were more knowledgable. I still respect you as a person though
props to oscar for his comp... and im not giving him crap im telling it like it is, that forbes has NO SHOT at winning and its a shitty fight!

the other thing is... 147 and 154 is chalked FULL of talents and names that would LOVE to fight oscar... and would make for badass fights, so the options are huge... this is a golden age at 147lbs for our era and hes choosing a ****ing 140lber!

im sorry that you thought i was more knowledgable, i dont even know where that came to that from how i KNOW, like EVERYONE ELSE that forbes aint SHIT to mayorga in 2004, neather in danger or quality of opponent, i just cant believe YOU cant see this for what it is... and you calling me a tito nuthugger is dispicable.

Last edited by kirk; 01-25-2008 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:19 PM   #70
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by UliUli
Vargas was hospitalized after the DLH. Vargas was nearly carried to his lockeroom after the DLH fight.

Does Fractured cheek bone ring a bell Kirk? Does it? Vargas is lucky Oscar didn't kill him with that left hook. Infact Oscar took it easy on Oscar when he had him pinned on the corner right before Cortez jumped in and you know it. Oscar knew Vargas was done and knew all he had to do was throw straight soft punches rather than killing him with more left hooks.
What in the hell did my post have to do with oscar?????? jezus uli

my POINT to him was... (i shouldnt even have to explain this)

he said that you can use the same rule as the tito vargas fight (a fighter being physicall broken and not being the same) as you can say with tito vs oscar....

i KNOW he was hospitalized... and THAT fight ruined vargas WORSE (because of the mental side effects) then the tito fight IMO...

but that had **** all to do with my post
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:22 PM   #71
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by UliUli
Kirk, Oscar had a great game plan and used it very effectively against Vargas. He broke Vargas down. The only round where I say Vargas dominated was the 9th. I agree Vargas won round 1 narrowly, 3, 5 and 9.

Had Vargas not been juiced DLH would have probably beat him faster and easier.
someone must be posting for you because vargas DOMINATED the 5th round...

'probably'

hoya 'probably' wouldnt have beat him at all if he would have fought him before trinidad...

now this is where we go back and forth on that too...
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:26 PM   #72
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Uli-Uli, let me try to simplify this for you so someone with your er ... er .. handicap can understand.
Tito ruined Vargas. He was brutalized, knocked down 5 times, was sent to the hospital immediately with sirens blaring, and was kept in intensive care several hours and was not released until several tests were taken the following day. Then after several months he fought weak hitting Rivera was knocked down twice and sent to the hospital after the fight. After that he fought his former sparring partner Shibata Flores, and was wobbled all over the ring for several rounds before he caught flores and stopped him. So in the 3 fights before Vargas fought Oscar, now get this, he was knocked down 7 times, knocked down twice by weak hitting Rivera, wobbled repeatedly by Flores and was sent to the hospital twice overnight for observation. Are you beginning to see why Oscar then decided to fight him. Oscar didn't do anything to ruin Vargas. It was Trinidad. Are you beginning to get it? Just another game by Oscar choosing the right guy at the right time to fight him.
For years the Golden Fishnet said "I will never fight Vargas! That will be his punishment. He will never get that big payday!" Then Oscar saw the tito, Rivera and flores fights, clled a press conference and bravely stood up and said in that whiny faggy high-pitched voice of his "I will fight Vargas"
I wonder what changed his mind. So you see Uli my man, Oscar did nothing to ruin Vargas. He was not the one. Try to get help.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:28 PM   #73
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Thanks for replying to all my posts Kirk. I honestly feel that my points are valid and yours are obcured by your comntempt for Oscar. FYI I'm IsaL so you know I have no biased towards Vargas, he still my second favorite fighter ever, but we will just have to agree to disagree with Oscar's descision to fight Forbes and Vargas's state at the time he fought DLH.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:28 PM   #74
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Quote:
hoya 'probably' wouldnt have beat him at all if he would have fought him before trinidad...

now this is where we go back and forth on that too...
I would just love to see you explain this since most people think Tito lost to DLH....so why would DLH not beat Vargas if we take a couple more years off DLH age? I think the result would of been worse for Vargas as at no time in his career did he ever have the tools necessary to beat DLH. But please do explain your theory.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:30 PM   #75
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Default Re: Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowbox39
I would just love to see you explain this since most people think Tito lost to DLH....so why would DLH not beat Vargas if we take a couple more years off DLH age? I think the result would of been worse for Vargas as at no time in his career did he ever have the tools necessary to beat DLH. But please do explain your theory.
Because Oscar wouldn't have fought him.

"I will never fight Vargas"- Oscar before December 2, 2000.

"Oh I can't take the trash talk anymore, give me Vargas (who takes a terrible beating and looks like damaged goods in his 2 post-Tito fights)- Oscar in 2002.
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