Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-23-2012, 03:39 PM   #1
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,312
vCash: 1000
Default Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

If the colour bar had never existed.

Which of them would have got the title first?
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-23-2012, 03:46 PM   #2
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,419
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Wills would have taken it from Langford, probably, if no colour bar existed.
McGrain is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 03:50 PM   #3
PhillyPhan69
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 3,881
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Would the title go to Peter Jackson years before that and sift down a different path completely?
PhillyPhan69 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 04:19 PM   #4
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,312
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69 View Post
Would the title go to Peter Jackson years before that and sift down a different path completely?
If you go that far back, the picture gets very complex indeed.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 04:48 PM   #5
Boilermaker
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,984
vCash: 685
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69 View Post
Would the title go to Peter Jackson years before that and sift down a different path completely?
It already did in most parts of the world.
Boilermaker is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 11:15 PM   #6
Asterion
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,879
vCash: 75
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Wills. Dempsey would've never been champ.
Asterion is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 02:24 AM   #7
ripcity
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: "Somebody may beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it."
Posts: 10,232
vCash: 887
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Harry Wills would have beaten Jack Johnson in 1915 or 1916.
ripcity is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 07:15 AM   #8
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,312
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterion View Post
Wills. Dempsey would've never been champ.
Perhaps we would all be talking about how Wills shamelessly avoided Dempsey as champion.

Perhaps holding the title would have hastened Wills decline.

Or just possibly he gets past Dempsey at Toledo, nobody ever hears of the Manassas Mauler.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 07:27 AM   #9
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Wills would dethrone either Johnson or Willard if he get's his shot. Willard ducked Fulton and Wills, so it's not just the 'colour bar', the 'colour bar' is just an excuse to duck an opponent anyway. Just because there's no colour bar doesn't automatically give Wills a title shot

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Wills would have taken it from Langford, probably, if no colour bar existed.
Langford likely never beats Johnson
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 07:40 AM   #10
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,856
vCash: 330
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Johnson, he was so inactive and out of shape that I struggle to see him beating the versions of langford and mcvey that exchanged the coloured championship round about 1912. Be it from the sam's, johnson or willard, harry would take the title round about 1916. Hard to say if jack would ever take it off him.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 08:05 AM   #11
Webbiano
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: England
Posts: 2,794
vCash: 500
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Wills would dethrone either Johnson or Willard if he get's his shot. Willard ducked Fulton and Wills, so it's not just the 'colour bar', the 'colour bar' is just an excuse to duck an opponent anyway. Just because there's no colour bar doesn't automatically give Wills a title shot



Langford likely never beats Johnson
Webbiano is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 08:18 AM   #12
he grant
Historian/Film Maker
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,664
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Wills would have fought Willard and defeated him in 1917 or 1918 setting up a possible huge fight with a prime Dempsey in 1919 ... a 24 year old Dempsey v.s. a 30 year old Wills ... that would have been a fight , prime for extremely close to prime ... love hearing how Wills is pushed aside by hard core Dempsey guys for losing at ages 37 and 38 ... the 1919 version was significantly bigger than Dempsey, very active and defeated far better opposition ... who wins ? Who knows but to dismiss Wills is simply wrong.
he grant is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 08:27 AM   #13
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,856
vCash: 330
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

yeah after beating Jeffries Johnson only had 3 successful defences in 5 years against Flynn (knocked out by Langford a couple of years prior), Jim Johnson (coming off a trio of losses to Jeannette) and Moran (coming off loses top McCarthy and Smith). During this time Langford only lost two close fights to Clark and Smith (both of whom he knocked out in rematches).

All the while Johnson was getting further out of shape and older whilst Sam was bang in his prime. A fit Johnson would always beat a fit Langford but I'm not sure that would have been the reality between 1911 and 1915.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 09:02 AM   #14
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
yeah after beating Jeffries Johnson only had 3 successful defences in 5 years against Flynn (knocked out by Langford a couple of years prior), Jim Johnson (coming off a trio of losses to Jeannette) and Moran (coming off loses top McCarthy and Smith). During this time Langford only lost two close fights to Clark and Smith (both of whom he knocked out in rematches).

All the while Johnson was getting further out of shape and older whilst Sam was bang in his prime. A fit Johnson would always beat a fit Langford but I'm not sure that would have been the reality between 1911 and 1915.
He said he was peak against Jeffries though, so I'm not sure he was deteriated that much. If he was fighting Langford he'd probably make an effort to be in shape too

In a reality where there is no colour bar, Johnson also doesn't get run out the country and is quite possibly a more active champion
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 09:07 AM   #15
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,312
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Dempsey vs Wills with a twist

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Wills would dethrone either Johnson or Willard if he get's his shot. Willard ducked Fulton and Wills, so it's not just the 'colour bar', the 'colour bar' is just an excuse to duck an opponent anyway.
While Wills was undoubtedly seen as a contender for Dempsey, I have not found that much media interest in matching him for the title when Willard was champion.

The papers seem to talk about Fulton, Moriss, Dillon and Levinsky as the contenders tochallenge Willard.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013