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Old 08-26-2012, 05:17 AM   #61
thewinfella
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

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Originally Posted by hamiltonporter View Post
yikes your obviously not very smart. the point was crystal clear. maybe next time he won't use words you don't understand like discussion or nemesis. this board might be too advanced for you.
See below **** wit !!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
The point may have been clear, but it was completely idiotic dogshit anyway.
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gotta agree with this
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:55 AM   #62
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

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Seriously mate , what are your posts supposed to be portraying ??? i cant find a point in them

Nadal, Federer, Djokovic

Nemesis, competition ???

WTF are u getting at

My point is simple. None of ufc's divisions have the equivalent of a Nadal vs Federer or Novak vs Federer type of competition. In other words , None of UFC's current champions have a dangerous competition. Anderson , Gsp , Jones , Junior..They don't have a legit nemesis.

There maybe an exception in the Lightweight division. (because of guys like Benson , Edgar). And i guess the featherweight and bantamweight divisions aren't that bad. But when you look at their champs , none of them have a dangerous nemesis.

Prime Shogun had (as stupid as it sounds...Marc Coleman , Rogerio)
Matt Hughes had Dennis Hallman , St Pierre & Penn...
Penn had Edgar , St Pierre...
In his prime, Wanderlei had Jackson ,Arona & yes , even Yoshida
In Nogueira's prime , he had Fedor (and i'd even add Rodriguez , especially when you take a closer look at their fights in adcc & pride)

But i'd go as far as saying that even these guys...weren't the equivalent of a federer/Nadal or Novak/nadal , Novak/federer type of competition. But it's as close as it gets.


Styles make fights. And right now , there's nobody in ufc's divisions to counterbalance the dominance of their champions. Not because their champs are untouchable fighting gods , but because a majority of the competition , including their contenders , are perfect (stylistically) for their champs.


Now , i know that what i'm saying is "dogshit" and doesn't make any sense. But it makes sense to me. ... The way i see it , the closest thing that comes to a "nemesis" can be found in Benson's division for the time being. (because of Edgar).

When i see Anderson dancing around and taunting like crazy , i don't see a genius at work. But a bored as **** champion. If Anderson had his "Nadal"...or if Junior dos santos had his "Novak"...He'd either end his fights by split decisions or simply lose. And maybe win the belt back in the rematch or wait for another contender to beat the new champ...and hope to be stylistically compatible with the new guy.

The same goes with GSP. And Jones.

And Fedor had the same problem near the end of his career. I'd argue that Fedor was in a way , the "nadal" of Prime Nogueira. Fedor's potential nemesis could've been Arona. Prime Filipovic beat him up pretty bad (even though he clearly won by ud).


But when i think of Fedor , i'm reminded of a quote i recently heard in the Dark knight rises. When Bane goes to Batman: "victory has defeated you"...


In a way , victory is the enemy when you get used to it all the time. That's what almost happened to anderson vs Sonnen in their first fight. (it was a warning). Luckily , sonnen is a choker. (on roids , who never should've had the opportunity to have a rematch against Silva). But Dana didn't fire his ass because he knows as much as any fan that sonnen's wrestling is enough to give problems to Silva. + the WWE style bullshit is perfect for the ratings. (that's why he hired Brock Lesnar in the first place. + he physically looked the part and already had a huge fanbase).

Victory is the enemy of all top fighters. It happened to tyson vs Douglas , to Lennox vs Rahman. To Fedor vs Werdum. (a guy who also submitted his brother alexander)...
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:59 AM   #63
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

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The way i see it.When i see Anderson dancing around and taunting like crazy , i don't see a genius at work. But a bored as **** champion.
Tell that to the guys in the ''Anderson would beat every LHW Champ ever'' thread
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:13 AM   #64
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

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Tell that to the guys in the ''Anderson would beat every LHW Champ ever'' thread
Speaking of which , anderson cuts weight to fight at 185. But maybe he'd do great as a LHW too. Maybe he'd beat Jones , Shogun , Machida...Or maybe he'd get killed. It surely would be interesting though.

But why would i try to even post in that other thread since what i'm saying in this thread is labeled as "dogshit" anyway ? ...

Tell you what , it may be "dogshit" but i'm sticking to it !
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:23 AM   #65
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

I can see your point, especially at MW.
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:43 AM   #66
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

Belfort is the most hot & cold fighter I`ve ever seen in all my years of watching MMA, normally I`m not a fan of such inconsistency but when Vitor Belfort is ON, he is without doubt one of the most exciting fighters ever to watch.

His performances in some of his biggest fights have been nothing short of weak (Anderson, Sakuraba, Overeem & Henderson come to mind)... on the other hand if the Belfort that showed up vs Wanderlei, Lindland & Franklin shows up we could be in for a real treat... & from a personal point of view, hopefully a devastating KO upset (I won`t be putting money on that but I will definitely be rooting for it.)
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:08 PM   #67
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

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Originally Posted by boxingcar View Post
My point is simple. None of ufc's divisions have the equivalent of a Nadal vs Federer or Novak vs Federer type of competition. In other words , None of UFC's current champions have a dangerous competition. Anderson , Gsp , Jones , Junior..They don't have a legit nemesis.

There maybe an exception in the Lightweight division. (because of guys like Benson , Edgar). And i guess the featherweight and bantamweight divisions aren't that bad. But when you look at their champs , none of them have a dangerous nemesis.

Prime Shogun had (as stupid as it sounds...Marc Coleman , Rogerio)
Matt Hughes had Dennis Hallman , St Pierre & Penn...
Penn had Edgar , St Pierre...
In his prime, Wanderlei had Jackson ,Arona & yes , even Yoshida
In Nogueira's prime , he had Fedor (and i'd even add Rodriguez , especially when you take a closer look at their fights in adcc & pride)

But i'd go as far as saying that even these guys...weren't the equivalent of a federer/Nadal or Novak/nadal , Novak/federer type of competition. But it's as close as it gets.


Styles make fights. And right now , there's nobody in ufc's divisions to counterbalance the dominance of their champions. Not because their champs are untouchable fighting gods , but because a majority of the competition , including their contenders , are perfect (stylistically) for their champs.


Now , i know that what i'm saying is "dogshit" and doesn't make any sense. But it makes sense to me. ... The way i see it , the closest thing that comes to a "nemesis" can be found in Benson's division for the time being. (because of Edgar).

When i see Anderson dancing around and taunting like crazy , i don't see a genius at work. But a bored as **** champion. If Anderson had his "Nadal"...or if Junior dos santos had his "Novak"...He'd either end his fights by split decisions or simply lose. And maybe win the belt back in the rematch or wait for another contender to beat the new champ...and hope to be stylistically compatible with the new guy.

The same goes with GSP. And Jones.

And Fedor had the same problem near the end of his career. I'd argue that Fedor was in a way , the "nadal" of Prime Nogueira. Fedor's potential nemesis could've been Arona. Prime Filipovic beat him up pretty bad (even though he clearly won by ud).


But when i think of Fedor , i'm reminded of a quote i recently heard in the Dark knight rises. When Bane goes to Batman: "victory has defeated you"...


In a way , victory is the enemy when you get used to it all the time. That's what almost happened to anderson vs Sonnen in their first fight. (it was a warning). Luckily , sonnen is a choker. (on roids , who never should've had the opportunity to have a rematch against Silva). But Dana didn't fire his ass because he knows as much as any fan that sonnen's wrestling is enough to give problems to Silva. + the WWE style bullshit is perfect for the ratings. (that's why he hired Brock Lesnar in the first place. + he physically looked the part and already had a huge fanbase).

Victory is the enemy of all top fighters. It happened to tyson vs Douglas , to Lennox vs Rahman. To Fedor vs Werdum. (a guy who also submitted his brother alexander)...


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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
Competition in the UFC is a problem... WTF is this guy on?!??

At heavyweight, Junior has the Cain rematch (which will be a war), then Cormier and Overeem waiting in the wings, possibly Werdum too, all highly dangerous and legit challengers. If Cain beats Junior, expect a trilogy decider. If Junior beats Cain again, Cormier is a MASSIVE threat to JDS.

At light-heavyweight, Jones will eventually have to face Hendo and a Machida rematch, both of which are dangerous. If Bones does as we all expect him to and wins both, he then faces a spectacularly dangerous career fighting naturally bigger men at hw, only adding to the picture detailed in the last paragraph. And when that happens, the 205 scene is thrown wide open again, competition will be fierce with guys like Gustafsson, Glover and Davis challenging the old guard of Rashad, Rua, Nogueria, etc.

At middleweight, Anderson will probably end his career by facing a stylistic nightmare (Weidman) and a superfight with GSP. Outwith those options, the division is absolutely stacked full of quality fighters, that I won't even bother listing. Once Anderson retires, this division will explode. Machida could easily move down, Belfort will be back here, as may Sonnen.

At welterweight, GSP has to face the interim champion in his first fight back, which is a difficult stylistic match for him, Condit's striking could prove tricky for Georges. Once he gets through that, Nick Diaz may be back and making noise, continuing their high-profile rivalry. There's a number 1 contender fight happening shortly between Johny Hendricks and Martin Kampmann, both of whom have achieved some great wins of late. In particular, Hendricks has the style and attributes to be a real test for GSP (if he beats Condit). And then of course, there's the Rory MacDonald issue.

Lightweight: stacked as hell, no need to even go into this one.

Featherweight: Aldo-Edgar could easily become one of the all-time great UFC rivalries, like Chuck-Randy or GSP-Penn.

Bantamweight: All serious fans of MMA are eagerly awaiting the return of Cruz so we can see him fight Barao, that's a thrilling fight in prospect between two elite talents. If Cruz wins, we get a trilogy-decider with Faber.

Flyweight: Young division without a clear number 1. I expect Benavidez to take control, but he is not a flyweight Fedor, could easily be toppled by a number of the talented challengers down there.



I dunno what sport you've been watching. Competition is fierce, and big rivalries are there, some great ones in prospect.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:12 PM   #68
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

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But when i think of Fedor , i'm reminded of a quote i recently heard in the Dark knight rises. When Bane goes to Batman: "victory has defeated you"...


In a way , victory is the enemy when you get used to it all the time. That's what almost happened to anderson vs Sonnen in their first fight. (it was a warning). Luckily , sonnen is a choker. (on roids , who never should've had the opportunity to have a rematch against Silva). But Dana didn't fire his ass because he knows as much as any fan that sonnen's wrestling is enough to give problems to Silva. + the WWE style bullshit is perfect for the ratings. (that's why he hired Brock Lesnar in the first place. + he physically looked the part and already had a huge fanbase).

Victory is the enemy of all top fighters. It happened to tyson vs Douglas , to Lennox vs Rahman. To Fedor vs Werdum. (a guy who also submitted his brother alexander)...


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Old 08-28-2012, 12:14 PM   #69
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

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...or if Junior dos santos had his "Novak"
Junior's been champion for less than a year. He's fought Cain once and faces a rematch. He has never fought Cormier or Overeem. And you're crying because he doesn't have a "Novak" (whatever that is). Bizarre.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:22 PM   #70
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

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Originally Posted by boxingcar View Post
My point is simple. None of ufc's divisions have the equivalent of a Nadal vs Federer or Novak vs Federer type of competition. In other words , None of UFC's current champions have a dangerous competition. Anderson , Gsp , Jones , Junior..They don't have a legit nemesis.

There maybe an exception in the Lightweight division. (because of guys like Benson , Edgar). And i guess the featherweight and bantamweight divisions aren't that bad. But when you look at their champs , none of them have a dangerous nemesis.

Prime Shogun had (as stupid as it sounds...Marc Coleman , Rogerio)
Matt Hughes had Dennis Hallman , St Pierre & Penn...
Penn had Edgar , St Pierre...
In his prime, Wanderlei had Jackson ,Arona & yes , even Yoshida
In Nogueira's prime , he had Fedor (and i'd even add Rodriguez , especially when you take a closer look at their fights in adcc & pride)

But i'd go as far as saying that even these guys...weren't the equivalent of a federer/Nadal or Novak/nadal , Novak/federer type of competition. But it's as close as it gets.


Styles make fights. And right now , there's nobody in ufc's divisions to counterbalance the dominance of their champions. Not because their champs are untouchable fighting gods , but because a majority of the competition , including their contenders , are perfect (stylistically) for their champs.


Now , i know that what i'm saying is "dogshit" and doesn't make any sense. But it makes sense to me. ... The way i see it , the closest thing that comes to a "nemesis" can be found in Benson's division for the time being. (because of Edgar).

When i see Anderson dancing around and taunting like crazy , i don't see a genius at work. But a bored as **** champion. If Anderson had his "Nadal"...or if Junior dos santos had his "Novak"...He'd either end his fights by split decisions or simply lose. And maybe win the belt back in the rematch or wait for another contender to beat the new champ...and hope to be stylistically compatible with the new guy.

The same goes with GSP. And Jones.

And Fedor had the same problem near the end of his career. I'd argue that Fedor was in a way , the "nadal" of Prime Nogueira. Fedor's potential nemesis could've been Arona. Prime Filipovic beat him up pretty bad (even though he clearly won by ud).


But when i think of Fedor , i'm reminded of a quote i recently heard in the Dark knight rises. When Bane goes to Batman: "victory has defeated you"...


In a way , victory is the enemy when you get used to it all the time. That's what almost happened to anderson vs Sonnen in their first fight. (it was a warning). Luckily , sonnen is a choker. (on roids , who never should've had the opportunity to have a rematch against Silva). But Dana didn't fire his ass because he knows as much as any fan that sonnen's wrestling is enough to give problems to Silva. + the WWE style bullshit is perfect for the ratings. (that's why he hired Brock Lesnar in the first place. + he physically looked the part and already had a huge fanbase).

Victory is the enemy of all top fighters. It happened to tyson vs Douglas , to Lennox vs Rahman. To Fedor vs Werdum. (a guy who also submitted his brother alexander)...
Wow
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:37 PM   #71
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

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Prime Shogun had (as stupid as it sounds...Marc Coleman , Rogerio)
Matt Hughes had Dennis Hallman , St Pierre & Penn...
Penn had Edgar , St Pierre...
In his prime, Wanderlei had Jackson ,Arona & yes , even Yoshida
In Nogueira's prime , he had Fedor (and i'd even add Rodriguez , especially when you take a closer look at their fights in adcc & pride)
I have no idea what your criteria is here... at all.

So the mid-2000s were better because of the rivalries listed above...

And just now is inferior because there are no such rivalries involving any of the champions...

What is the criteria for what consitutes a rivalry though? Your examples don't make any sense.


- How can Hughes have "had GSP", while you moan about GSP not having any rivals? If Hughes had GSP, didn't GSP also have Hughes? GSP beat him 2-1, but by your criteria do you need to lose the rivalry to have "had" the rivalry? GSP is an incumbent champion who did have a great rival in his championship career, but does he need to have one at all times during his reign to satisfy you? Condit or Diaz or Hendricks could easily become the guy he splits anothetr trilogy with, but will we wait til that actually happens again before we say MMA is in a good state? So MMA is weak when the champion is not involved in a win-loss series with someone, and strong when he is?

- How did Wanderlei "have" Jackson? He beat the living shit out of Rampage twice when he was in his prime. How does that constitute a rivalry, but Silva vs Sonnen doesn't, or Cruz vs Faber doesn't?


I could continue, but I won't...
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:21 PM   #72
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

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Junior's been champion for less than a year. He's fought Cain once and faces a rematch. He has never fought Cormier or Overeem. And you're crying because he doesn't have a "Novak" (whatever that is). Bizarre.
What i mean by that "bizarre" reference is that he's likely to keep his belt for a very long time. But it's not just Junior. The same goes for many of ufc's divisions
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:22 PM   #73
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

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Wow
Thanks for the compliment.
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:43 PM   #74
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

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I have no idea what your criteria is here... at all.

So the mid-2000s were better because of the rivalries listed above...

And just now is inferior because there are no such rivalries involving any of the champions...

What is the criteria for what consitutes a rivalry though? Your examples don't make any sense.


- How can Hughes have "had GSP", while you moan about GSP not having any rivals? If Hughes had GSP, didn't GSP also have Hughes? GSP beat him 2-1, but by your criteria do you need to lose the rivalry to have "had" the rivalry? GSP is an incumbent champion who did have a great rival in his championship career, but does he need to have one at all times during his reign to satisfy you? Condit or Diaz or Hendricks could easily become the guy he splits anothetr trilogy with, but will we wait til that actually happens again before we say MMA is in a good state? So MMA is weak when the champion is not involved in a win-loss series with someone, and strong when he is?

- How did Wanderlei "have" Jackson? He beat the living shit out of Rampage twice when he was in his prime. How does that constitute a rivalry, but Silva vs Sonnen doesn't, or Cruz vs Faber doesn't?


I could continue, but I won't...
Because each fighter has a rival. Gsp used to be Matt Hughes' rival. And so was Hallman & Penn. But ever since gsp has upped his game , it is now he , who needs a serious rival...a Nemesis. It makes sense to me .



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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
So the mid-2000s were better because of the rivalries listed above...
No , just the rivalries. (were more interesting). But i think mma is still as interesting as it was before. (Though i prefer pride's format instead of ufc's production but that's an entirely different issue)..

But i can think of great fights in today's era. Just recently , Shogun vs Henderson for ex.



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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
How did Wanderlei "have" Jackson? He beat the living shit out of Rampage twice when he was in his prime. How does that constitute a rivalry, but Silva vs Sonnen doesn't, or Cruz vs Faber doesn't?
Well , if i had to select a correct order , i'd say :
Arona
Yoshida
& Jackson.

He did beat Jackson twice. but Wandy was knocked down on several occasions in the rematch. Yeah..i guess it's useless to count their third fight in the ufc since wandy is not the same anymore.
Side note: i personally think Yoshida should've won their 2nd fight.

Sonnen is one of the biggest choker in ufc (or maybe mma) history though. (Plus he was found guilty of taking roids.) It's kinda sad to think that this guy is anderson's rival. But maybe i wasn't clear enough in my previous message. Don't forget this part:


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Originally Posted by boxingcar View Post
i'd go as far as saying that even these guys...weren't the equivalent of a federer/Nadal or Novak/nadal , Novak/federer type of competition. But it's as close as it gets.
I don't think ANY era gets close to a "nadal/novak/federer" type of competition in mma. Maybe one day.
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:54 PM   #75
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Default Re: Jon Jones to face Vitor Belfort on Sept 22

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I don't think you're talking nonsense. and I'm sure you have other qualities about yourself. Keep your chin up.
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