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Old 09-01-2012, 01:25 PM   #31
Dempsey1238
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Default Re: A defence of Jess Willard

I think Willard is a big unknown, I know people bring up the Dempsey fight, but the guy was 37 years old, out of shape, and had not box in like what? 2 or 3 years.

He rein as champion is not a good one, but its about as good as Jim Corbett, John L Sullivan after he unify the title, or Jim Braddock, and even as good as Dempsey after making the first million $ gate. little to hardly no fighting for years as champion. Willard did make something out of the title, MONEY, he ggot paid for shows, talks, plays, cow shows ete. He took that title and went on the road an made lots of money, and he didnt even had to fight, who can blame him for going after the easy money? In Willard's day as champ, he was view as the great white man, that saved the white race from the evil Jack Johnson. With that rep in that time period, Willard perhaps didnt need to fight ever again for money lol.

He was a good fighter, the Kilt of his day. But started boxing at 29, than a few years later wins the title. Amazing story.

Now Jack Johnson may not have been " Prime" Jack Johnson, but still a great fighter. A old, shot past prime fighter does not go as many rounds as Johnson did at the pace he did. Johnson still had something left, perhaps like Archie Moore or Joe Walcott so to speak. Willard in my mind beat a still great fighter to win the title.
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:26 PM   #32
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Johnson still great by 1915? Hahahaha did you not see that spare tire around his midsection? Did you ever see Walcott or Moore stepinto the ring with a tire around their midsection?
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:36 PM   #33
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Default Re: A defence of Jess Willard

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Johnson still great by 1915? Hahahaha did you not see that spare tire around his midsection? Did you ever see Walcott or Moore stepinto the ring with a tire around their midsection?
If Johnson was as over the hill as many claim, He would have never lasted over 25 rounds, in that heat, and at that pace, just because Johnson had something in the medsection does not mean there out of shape. Johnson was past 35 by than, and you gain weight around that age about. Johnson was in good fighting shape.
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:37 PM   #34
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Default Re: A defence of Jess Willard

Perhaps a younger Jess Willard would've made more of an impact had he taken up boxing earlier:

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When it comes down to it, Willard simply never had much love for his labour which is why he isn't too well remembered.
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:44 PM   #35
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Even less skill than the Interim Latino WBC heavyweight champion?

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You should tell most of those amateurs to get in with the professionals, because they sound more skilled than many of the professional belt holders today.
This is absolutely terrible. These two whales seem more content on lying on the floor than fighting. Can anybody else remember seeing a fight this bad that was contested for a "title"?
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:28 PM   #36
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You're talking to a man who can be quoted as saying that Fat Willie Meehan would split a series with Mike Tyson, and that Bob Fitzsimmons is a naturally bigger man than Mike Tyson
I was being deliberaly facetious when I said the former, and I never said the latter.
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:31 PM   #37
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Willard-McCarthy was a draw, not a win for willard
In that period, Holmes Cobb would have been recorded as a draw in some states.

Most historians think that Willard had the better of the fight, though ironicaly I am starting to doubt it myself, as a result of research that I have done for this thread!
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:35 PM   #38
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Default Re: A defence of Jess Willard

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Originally Posted by Dempsey1238 View Post
I think Willard is a big unknown, I know people bring up the Dempsey fight, but the guy was 37 years old, out of shape, and had not box in like what? 2 or 3 years.

He rein as champion is not a good one, but its about as good as Jim Corbett, John L Sullivan after he unify the title, or Jim Braddock, and even as good as Dempsey after making the first million $ gate. little to hardly no fighting for years as champion. Willard did make something out of the title, MONEY, he ggot paid for shows, talks, plays, cow shows ete. He took that title and went on the road an made lots of money, and he didnt even had to fight, who can blame him for going after the easy money? In Willard's day as champ, he was view as the great white man, that saved the white race from the evil Jack Johnson. With that rep in that time period, Willard perhaps didnt need to fight ever again for money lol.

He was a good fighter, the Kilt of his day. But started boxing at 29, than a few years later wins the title. Amazing story.

Now Jack Johnson may not have been " Prime" Jack Johnson, but still a great fighter. A old, shot past prime fighter does not go as many rounds as Johnson did at the pace he did. Johnson still had something left, perhaps like Archie Moore or Joe Walcott so to speak. Willard in my mind beat a still great fighter to win the title.
This post has a lot to recommend it and,imo ,should be taken seriously.
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:51 PM   #39
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Johnson still great by 1915? Hahahaha did you not see that spare tire around his midsection? Did you ever see Walcott or Moore stepinto the ring with a tire around their midsection?
How many fighters at the time do you think could have beaen this version of Johnson?
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:21 PM   #40
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Default Re: A defence of Jess Willard

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Not that it helps my case very much, but while looking for articles I found this. Apparently Bob Fitzsimmons dropped a young Jess Willard in sparring.

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Fitz astounds me again , does it ever end?

Spring of 1912 that makes him retired, but if memory serves me correct, wasnt this the time that Fitz was photographed as weighing 200 lbs. It seems he might have carried the modern weights okay, doesnt it.
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:29 PM   #41
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Fitz astounds me again , does it ever end?

Spring of 1912 that makes him retired, but if memory serves me correct, wasnt this the time that Fitz was photographed as weighing 200 lbs. It seems he might have carried the modern weights okay, doesnt it.
The rabit hole goes prety deep with Fitz.

The problem you have defending him is somtimes that the body of supporting evidence is too big and unweildy to condense down.

Fitz weighed 202lbs when he went on his exhibition tour with Jeffries, after their last fight.
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:33 PM   #42
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Default Re: A defence of Jess Willard

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How many fighters at the time do you think could have beaen this version of Johnson?
In a 15 round fight or fight to the finish? Because Willard lost to Johnson over 15 rounds
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Old 09-02-2012, 05:10 AM   #43
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In a 15 round fight or fight to the finish? Because Willard lost to Johnson over 15 rounds
Shame the fight wasn't scheduled for 15 rounds.

So to answer the question please.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:23 AM   #44
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Default Re: A defence of Jess Willard

Every champion in history has at least a 'decent' level of skill when seen in the overall context of boxing skills however, Willard's was perhaps the worst the only reason he got as far as he did was because of his chin take that away and he's got no chance against any credible fighter.

If you put Willard in the ring with the likes of Klitschko as much hate as they get he would get embarressed severely.
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Old 09-02-2012, 12:54 PM   #45
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Default Re: A defence of Jess Willard

He was shit.

Not actually shit, but in context with the hw champions who came before and after, he's pretty shit.

He was only champion because Johnson drew the colour line.

Had wills, jeannette, mcvey, or langford got the shot in '15 willard would never have had a look in.

He wasn't even as good as gunboat nor fulton.

To say he's anywhere near the skill level of either Klitschko is pretty ridiculous.
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