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Old 09-03-2012, 03:04 AM   #16
Primate
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

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Originally Posted by Big N Bad View Post
the 3 changed i would like to see in mma.

the number 1 change- fights need to be longer to be interesting, and so we can see the best of each guy. the reason is, mma has evovled so much, everyone cross trains, and alot of the guys simply shut each other out, neutralise what the other guy is trying to do and thus makes for a slow paced boring fight this is mainly because both guys are usually highly skilled.

i feel mma guys need longer rounds to work with since its alot harder to pull stuff off now than it was 10 years ago. alot of the fights only warm up after the 3rd round. something needs to change here.
This is a pretty iffy one. Uniform rounds are the way to go. No 10min first rounds then 5 minute over times. 5 minute rounds are plenty of time to impose whatever aspect of your gameplan you wish to apply in a particular round, but it's not such a long time as to become boring as shit if one guy is intent on stalling.

Overall I think fights could be longer. I'm not against something like 7 round title fights, but for every fight that needed a 6th or 7th round (Diaz-Condit, Bendo-Edgar I), there are probably another half dozen that would just get more and more frustrating as the rounds drew on.

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2) soccer kicks, stomps, knees to downed opponents heads need to be allowed. why should it be dangerous only for the striker once the fight hits the floor?
I'm all for this, but the reality is, it's just not going to happen. At the very least I'd like to see knees to the head on the ground. As someone else has said, there's little practical difference between what Aldo did to Mendes and what Olivera did to Lentz. It also eliminates the idiotic 3 points on the ground tactics.

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3) the scoring of the fight needs to change. i feel if a fight is scored as one big unit, rather than rounds, it will be better imo. this may cause some bad decisions but so do other scoring systems.
While the scoring isn't perfect, I also don't think it's fundamentally broken, either. What I'd like to see in terms of scoring is more education/training for the judges, and have them more inclined to give out 10-10 scores for very close rounds (think R3 of Bendo-Edgar II) or 10-8s and even 10-7s for particularly dominant rounds (eg, R1 of Maynard Edgar I). Also, just the wording of the scoring criteria should be changed, just add in the line "Effort to finish the fight by knock out or submission" in front of the "effective striking, grappling.... etc." and all of a sudden Anthony Pettis throwing up triangles on Clay Guida becomes the guy scoring the points, while Guida becomes the guy defending his opponents efforts to finish the fight.

Also, I'd like to see the introduction of penalties by the referees. Not taking a point, but a step above shouting "keep working" or telling him in between rounds to keeps his knees clean. Like a compromise for the yellow cards, and particularly close rounds the judges could use any penalties to aid their scoring.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

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Originally Posted by Ne5ville14 View Post
I have a question about Knee to the head of a downed opponent. Unfortunatly I've never done any combat sport, for the moment, and I was thinking about this.

How is a knee to the head of a opponent could be more dangerous ( I.E: Charles Oliveira VS Nik Lentz) then the knee Chad Mendez got KOD with VS Aldo or the knee Shields got KOD with against Ellenberger ? Both guy were going for the shoot when there opponent hit then with a knee to the head....

Personnaly I don't see any difference...and since both guy were going for the shoot I think those were more violent then the knee Oliveira gave to Lentz.

Any thoughts on that ?

It's a shit rule that was made up by boxing commissioners who knew dick about the sport.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

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I miss MMA fights in a ring, I like the cage too, but MMA in a ring was always very cool !
Yeah i wish One FC would use a ring. Looks unbecoming watching soccer kicks in an Octagon. Plus with the cage you have the extra leverage. Seeing as they've adopted PRIDE rules use the ring.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:34 PM   #19
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

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Originally Posted by Big N Bad View Post
I've been a fan of this sport for about 10 years. i loved pride when it was the number 1 org in the world.

back then mma was interesting because there was little cross training. so we saw the best of each style. back then it was also dangerous for a ground fighter to go to the ground in fear he would get stomped out, soccer kicked or crushed with knees! a reason why i am for these strikes!
also pride had a 10 minute first round which as dan henderson said 'seperates the boys from the men'
and then 2, 5 minute rounds.


the 3 changed i would like to see in mma.

the number 1 change- fights need to be longer to be interesting, and so we can see the best of each guy. the reason is, mma has evovled so much, everyone cross trains, and alot of the guys simply shut each other out, neutralise what the other guy is trying to do and thus makes for a slow paced boring fight this is mainly because both guys are usually highly skilled.

i feel mma guys need longer rounds to work with since its alot harder to pull stuff off now than it was 10 years ago. alot of the fights only warm up after the 3rd round. something needs to change here.

2) soccer kicks, stomps, knees to downed opponents heads need to be allowed. why should it be dangerous only for the striker once the fight hits the floor?

3) the scoring of the fight needs to change. i feel if a fight is scored as one big unit, rather than rounds, it will be better imo. this may cause some bad decisions but so do other scoring systems.

thoughts?
Soccer kicks and stomps plus knee's to a downed opponents head are all street fighting technique's, i mean lets face it thats what they are !!!, it does not require a huge amount of skill to stomp somebody's head while he is down does it, there out for good reason and long may that be the case

Your always gonna get the PRIDE vs modern day MMA / UFC debates, those who preferred PRIDE often refer to themselves as " real " MMA fans, and or ridicule anybody who believes that modern day MMA has evolved into a better sport, this forum i must say seems to be flooded with that opinion which actually makes me cringe, because you see guys posting who may not know the sport too well and you have **** tard key board warriors like Scurlaruntings telling them " how it is " and they usually reply with :

" this " , or or aint that right !!!, basically because they dont want to look daft in front of the Mr. Miaghi of MMA, because PRIDE said so !!!

Ok rant over, ill begin my post, the 10 minute opening round i didnt like, i thought it was just too long to expect 2 human beings / highly trained athletes to be competing at 100%, granted a lot of the opening 10 minute rounds were slow but in some of the bigger fights it was literally guys at or around 100% for ten full minutes, for me its too long, i know Dan Henderson thinks otherwise but i dont , i think the 5 minute allows a mind set that if fighter A or B needs to change there pace they can do so without the worry of another 8 minutes of action before a rest, its a heavy weight on the mind and body

I happen to agree with the scoring system point, it needs changing fast !! there has been way too many unfathomable decisions in striking matches and in matches that have seen more grappling than striking, the scoring system needs to change, but under NSAC i can never see that happening, its been around way too long and its just not good for business for that to happen.

In summary my belief is this, MMA has evolved into a clean, structured, technical sport, which IMHO is a good thing, PRIDE and the so called glory days are over and the vast majority of the world (talking general public here) are well informed and onboard with the direction that this sport is taking, if you ask my opinion i think PRIDE was a stain on the sport of MMA (while i will add during its hey day, the HW division provided the best fights of all time, still to this day i believe that) for me, there was just too much wrong with it

The direction of modern MMA while less entertaining is for me a lot more fascinating to watch, its way way more technical, guys are better in every area now and this continues to be the case, kids 13 and 14 are beginning to train MMA as a sport and your always going to have cross over students of the game from boxing, wrestling, judo, MT, JJ, kick boxing, karate its a great time to be involved with MMA, and the sport will continue to grow, as will the UFC

People have claimed that the UFC has corporatised MMA, thats one description, its not the description i would use because you'll never see a corporate man in the cage and very very few paying to see MMA, people who have said that clearly dont operate in the modern corporate world, yes the UFC is a corporation but so is Golden Boy Promotions !!, whats the difference ??, it provides a product in a certain way that attracts main stream attention for financial gain, it dramatises things, get the **** over it !!

Im fine with the way modern MMA is headed, completely fine, i think its a much much better sport now than its ever been, and its a pretty good job MMA fans the world over (casual, fanatical what ever the case may be) are not bitter individuals who sit in front of a laptop 10 hours a day in cloud cuckoo land bitching they want PRIDE back
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:37 PM   #20
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

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Originally Posted by Primate View Post
What I'd like to see in terms of scoring is more education/training for the judges, and have them more inclined to give out 10-10 scores for very close rounds (think R3 of Bendo-Edgar II)
Don't ever try to suggest on here that ANY round in MMA could or should be scored 10-10, EVER, for ANY reason. You will get yelled at and called an idiot, noob, moron etc. Even rounds don't exist in MMA.

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Old 09-03-2012, 07:10 PM   #21
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

There are some stupid rules in mma that are based on dumb old-school prejudices that I assume someday will be done away with. The "no downward elbow" thing for instance. Also, the "one hand down is a downed opponent" and the "no kicks to an opponent in your guard". The soccer kicks and knees to a guy on the ground though? That might never come back. True, it's more like a real street fight but I just think the old farts in the commissions might not see that it's not any worse than what they already allow. Like pot and booze, I guess.

The scoring thing, I agree 100%, but I have yet to hear anyone come up with something that actually sounds like a legit great way to judge mma. I'd love to hear people's ideas, but every time this topic has come up it's been a bunch of dumb or unusable stuff.

**** the fighting in a ring, but the yellow card system is something I'd definitely import from Pride. I wonder why they haven't done that yet. Seems like it'd be the perfect way to get away from boring lay-n-pray decisions that make the org look bad.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

The 10 point must system just doesn't work for mma. I also hate stand-ups, and I'm not particularly thrilled by having rounds. MMA is not boxing. MMA is supposed to be as close to a real fight as you can get while minimizing injuries to it's participants. Rounds, the 10 point must, etc...were all things done for the sake of boxing. Boxing is not about real fighting. It is about seeing people getting punched repeatedly, and making the conditions optimal for seeing that happen. That is not how a real fight works. MMA was made to show how things work in a real fight. I think that keeping things as close to a real fight is essential to the sport's survival.

I realize that not having a time limit was a problem for the UFCs starting with UFC IV. There were many that didn't see the end of Gracie and Severn, because the time block purchased for the ppv ran out. This was not a one time occurrence. It happened again. The bouts have to be timed in order to be sure they're finished while the customers at home have a chance to see them. I am fine with that. We just don't need rounds to make this happen. We can just limit fights to 15 or 25 minutes.

Round endings often allow people to escape from bad positions with little to no skill involved. The strategy is to just ride the clock for safety, and start over from standing next round. Doing away with rounds does away with a lot of this. This brings me to stand-ups during lulls in activity. A fighter can often stall because he is being bested, or is uncomfortable on the ground, and be rewarded by standing up. Don't reward someone for stalling. Don't allow someone to escape a position by making the position boring.

I prefer a scoring system that reward fighters for what they do during a fight, and not rewarding them up front and have them fighting to hold on to those rewards. The 10 point must system gives everyone 10 points going into a round, and has them fight to preserve those points. I would rather give fighters nothing going in, and rewarding them with what they do afterward.

My internet connection isn't great in my current weather conditions. I'll give my point system in a following post, as I hate to type all of this shit for nothing.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:28 PM   #23
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

What I would propose:

No rounds. 15 minute time limits for normal bouts. 25 minutes for main events, title eliminators, title fights.

No stand-ups.

Methods for scoring:

4pts for throws where to thrower remains standing and the throwee lands on the back.
4pts for takedowns resulting in a passed guard
4pts for a knock down
4pts for a clean sweep that includes a passed guard

3pts for back mount with hooks in
3pts for passing the guard

2pts for getting the mount
2pts for knee on stomach
2pts for take downs that result in opponent's guard/half guard
2pts for sweeps that wind up in opponent's guard/half guard

Stiking:
There would be 4 judges. Two with the focus on one fighter, two judges focused on the other. Each judge scores any strike that judge deems significant. Knock downs are of no importance here as they are called elsewhere. The strike totals from the judges are averaged out, and the fighters receive the averaged amount.

Add all the points, and the fighter with the most wins.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:44 AM   #24
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

Jesus. No rounds would be incredibly ugly, especially these days. Do you really want to see Jon Fitch sit on somebody for 15 minutes?
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:59 AM   #25
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

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Jesus. No rounds would be incredibly ugly, especially these days. Do you really want to see Jon Fitch sit on somebody for 15 minutes?
Fitch fights are always ugly. At least they would be 2 minutes shorter.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:16 AM   #26
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!



I do think that points system is too complicated for a Fox audience, and I think a good compromise could be reached with 5 minute ''rounds'' just being a break period rather than a section of scoring to make it work with the Athletic comissions
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:45 AM   #27
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

They need prospects which there are none. Also, hard to put on all that training when the pinnacle of the sport will pay you $10k to be on a PPV card. MMA will fade into the background much like Kickboxing. The sad part is that the # of practitioners of it (bjj, MT) will die down as well.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:00 PM   #28
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

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They need prospects which there are none. Also, hard to put on all that training when the pinnacle of the sport will pay you $10k to be on a PPV card. MMA will fade into the background much like Kickboxing. The sad part is that the # of practitioners of it (bjj, MT) will die down as well.
Not sure I agree with that. You seem to be forgetting the other half of the world where most of these individual styles that make up MMA are national sports and in some cases ways of life. Boxing has and always will be in the background in the East playing second fiddle to various martial arts including MMA and MT/Kickboxing.

Other than Thailand the home of MT and Japan the home of MMA both with very established MMA/MT & Kickboxing scenes on a par with baseball in the US or Football in Europe MMA is in boom mode in China, Singapore, Philippines, Taiwan, Hong Kong as is MT in places like Malaysia, Cambodia, Burma ect. with new organisations and events popping up everywhere, things are looking healthy for MMA with more oppurtunities to fight and make a payday. And concerning prospects, I think you'll find they're coming through,but off most people's radars as lots of young prospects are basing themselves in Asia

Here are two example reports and a few vids with a couple of Bellator Asian based guys.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

This from Fight Sport Asia who follow the Asian MMA scene very closely:

Quote:
As the sport of MMA grows in Asia – it also grows in countries like Thailand, Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam and beyond.
It’s always amazing to see the birth and growth of something as exciting as MMA.

Traditional countries of MMA super-power in Asia, such as Japan, Korea and China are still super active.
With the growth of One FC, Legend FC, PXC and the up-coming URCC, DARE, PRO FC, RUFF and SFL – we will only see a high, more exciting standard.

Thailand went from 2 MMA gym’s in 2010 to now having more than 12 active MMA gym’s in 2012
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJbt0s03zEY[/ame]


As the article notes MMA is on the rise in Asia for example Thailand had only two MMA gyms in 2010 nad now 12, things are in a boom but not for Thai fighters, for fighters from all over the wordl who recognise the weakest link in MMA at the momnet including at the highest level ie UFC is the striking, on the whole it's piss poor so why not train MMA in the country that is famous for mass producing the best strikers in the world....makes sense to me!

And about the bit where you mentiond a $10,000 pay ceiling for fighters....well it's not all about the money, I fought in Bangkok once for 500 baht ($17).
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:35 PM   #29
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

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Originally Posted by boranbkk View Post
Not sure I agree with that. You seem to be forgetting the other half of the world where most of these individual styles that make up MMA are national sports and in some cases ways of life. Boxing has and always will be in the background in the East playing second fiddle to various martial arts including MMA and MT/Kickboxing.

Other than Thailand the home of MT and Japan the home of MMA both with very established MMA/MT & Kickboxing scenes on a par with baseball in the US or Football in Europe MMA is in boom mode in China, Singapore, Philippines, Taiwan, Hong Kong as is MT in places like Malaysia, Cambodia, Burma ect. with new organisations and events popping up everywhere, things are looking healthy for MMA with more oppurtunities to fight and make a payday. And concerning prospects, I think you'll find they're coming through,but off most people's radars as lots of young prospects are basing themselves in Asia

Here are two example reports and a few vids with a couple of Bellator Asian based guys.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

This from Fight Sport Asia who follow the Asian MMA scene very closely:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


As the article notes MMA is on the rise in Asia for example Thailand had only two MMA gyms in 2010 nad now 12, things are in a boom but not for Thai fighters, for fighters from all over the wordl who recognise the weakest link in MMA at the momnet including at the highest level ie UFC is the striking, on the whole it's piss poor so why not train MMA in the country that is famous for mass producing the best strikers in the world....makes sense to me!

And about the bit where you mentiond a $10,000 pay ceiling for fighters....well it's not all about the money, I fought in Bangkok once for 500 baht ($17).
Im no expert in incomes around the world but 10k per fight isnt to bad in the US if you have 3 fights a year then you have 30k and people live on much less than that in the US.
In Thailand stuff are probably cheaper than in the US or most of the western countrys so i guess 17 bucks go a lot further in Thailand than in the US but what do i know i might be talking out of my ass
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:51 PM   #30
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Default Re: I feel MMA needs a massive change!

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Originally Posted by greathamza View Post
Im no expert in incomes around the world but 10k per fight isnt to bad in the US if you have 3 fights a year then you have 30k and people live on much less than that in the US.
In Thailand stuff are probably cheaper than in the US or most of the western countrys so i guess 17 bucks go a lot further in Thailand than in the US but what do i know i might be talking out of my ass
30 k a year for say 10 years is not enough to retire on, especially when your brains are being scrambled
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