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Old 08-12-2012, 05:17 AM   #1
Kittikasem
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Default I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

...because I think him moving to featherweight is much better, for him, the sport, the fans, all.

The reasons being:

- It stops people saying Edgar could be the best lightweight ever - he ain't. He has been a fantastic fighter in that division, but some way off being the best ever. A win he didn't deserve vs BJ (by my card) and then a legit win over BJ (who wasn't as good as he was years earlier), a draw with Gray Maynard that he barely s****ed after getting beaten to a pulp in the 1st round then a superb win over Gray (again, after getting ****ed up in the 1st), and then two consecutive losses to Ben Henderson - this does not equal being the best lightweight ever (2-2-1 since winning the title). No. When BJ was in his prime, he was dominating the **** out of the best challengers and finishing them emphatically (Sherk, Florian, Sanchez), not getting bloodied and battered by them in close fights. But anyway, to compete so well with three guys like Penn, Maynard and Henderson over a period of a few years does show that Frankie Edgar is an extremely effective fighter with a lot of great attributes, which leads me to my second point...

- Simply, Frankie Edgar will be better at 145 than he is at 155, IMO. I don't really buy all this stuff about how Frankie is tiny for a lightweight, I don't think he is. It's way overstated. He may be short, but his torso is huge and he's strong as a bull. But, if the guy can comfortably make 145 as he says he can, then he'll be even better there I would think. I think the reason that Edgar had such trouble with Maynard was that Gray's extra weight meant his punches carried more power than Frankie's chin could deal with, and especially in the first Henderson fight it was the same scenario, Frankie could easily compete with him in terms of skills, but when Ben hit him he got hurt, and he just wasn't capable of returning the favour regularly. At 145, Frankie Edgar won't be facing people who carry the same weight and strength as Gray Maynard and Ben Henderson, so you'd have to figure that Frankie's chin will hold up a lot better to the strikes of his average opponent there. And if Frankie isn't getting hurt, then he's usually winning the exchanges due to his speed, boxing skills and quick takedowns.

- The reason I'm not a fan of Frankie (at lightweight) is that he seems to go out there trying to win fights on points because he is unable to finish guys most of the time. We saw in the third Maynard fight that he does know how to finish though. If he is at feather, I bet there are a lot more finishes like in that fight, and a lot less running round the cage tippy-tapping his way to decisions. I'd love to see Edgar knocking people out with rapid combinations, always love to see good boxing in the cage. An exciting prospect.

- I know that most people will disagree, but I actually think Edgar will beat Aldo in a featherweight title fight. If I was Dana/Joe Silva, I'd make Frankie fight a #1 contender fight at 145 before getting a shot, just so he can acclimatize to the new division and prove he is effective there, maybe give him the Korean Zombie in a title eliminator while Aldo fights Koch. I'd expect Frankie to beat the Zombie and I expect Aldo to beat Koch, so I'd consider this a genuine UFC superfight. And I'd back Frankie to win. As long as he fights cautiously and intelligently through the first two rounds, I think he can wrestle Aldo to defeat down the stretch. Frankie is bigger, stronger and better than the likes of Hominick and Chad Mendes, he'd cause Aldo all sorts of problems as long as he didn't walk onto a big strike. It'd be a fascinating fight, that's for sure.

- Ben Henderson vs Nate Diaz is, for me, a more interesting, competitive fight than Edgar-Diaz. In fact, it's a fight that I really cannot wait to happen, going to be ****ing brilliant. IMO, Nate would've smashed Frankie up, this is a more even, enticing prospect.


Edgar may have got the raw end of a decision last night, but I think it was the best thing for him and for the lightweight & featherweight divisions.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:01 AM   #2
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

If Benson can land the leg kicks that he did to Frankie, I fear for what Aldo's gonna do to Frankie's leg, but this would be an unbelievably good match up.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:46 AM   #3
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

Aldo would butcher Edgar
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:53 AM   #4
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

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Originally Posted by Matty lll View Post
Aldo would butcher Edgar
Like he butchered Mark Hominick and Kenny Florian?

Edgar is a lot better than both those guys IMO.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:02 AM   #5
Matty lll
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
Like he butchered Mark Hominick and Kenny Florian?

Edgar is a lot better than both those guys IMO.
Maybe but he's showed he's pretty vulnerable to leg kicks, just think what Aldo would do to him. Once you take away Edgar's movement you take away a huge part of his style. Plus Edgar wouldn't have the same speed advantage that he has at lightweight.

You can make all kinds of excuse for the Mark Hominick fight so I'll not bother with that but I doubt that Frankie Edgar would try and grapple with Aldo the same way Florian did. It'd be a striking match and Aldo is the better striker by far.

I could be completely wrong but I just hope this fight gets made
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:15 AM   #6
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

Is he going down for sure? I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't that was a close fight and dropping down because the judges may have scored it the wrong prob won't sit well with him.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

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Is he going down for sure? I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't that was a close fight and dropping down because the judges may have scored it the wrong prob won't sit well with him.
He says he's over the fight, probably because he knows there is no chance of another rematch. So you figure with no chance of getting the belt in the immediate future and with FW pretty thin he could drop down and still possibly get an immediate title shot.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:44 AM   #8
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

I have to say that i agree with almost every word of this thread

Apart from the Aldo bit ................... which i dont necessarily disagree with per say , i just dont think its as cut and dry as that

In short id prefer to see Frankie @45 but i believe he's still a top 55'er , so what do you do ?? continue in a division where you are competetive and do not have to cut weight , or begin cutting weight , a first for Franky in his career ??

Id like to see him @45 personally

Better for everyone
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:56 AM   #9
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

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Originally Posted by Matty lll View Post
Maybe but he's showed he's pretty vulnerable to leg kicks, just think what Aldo would do to him. Once you take away Edgar's movement you take away a huge part of his style. Plus Edgar wouldn't have the same speed advantage that he has at lightweight.

You can make all kinds of excuse for the Mark Hominick fight so I'll not bother with that but I doubt that Frankie Edgar would try and grapple with Aldo the same way Florian did. It'd be a striking match and Aldo is the better striker by far.

I could be completely wrong but I just hope this fight gets made
I think this is a valid point

Speed - Edgar has a legit speed advantage over everybody @155 , something he will not have @145 , and definitely something he will not have over Aldo

Strategy - To beat Aldo , Edgar will have to be a bulldozer style wrestler , not a wrestler looking to take advantage of a mistake by his opponent and time a TD , because Aldo doesnt make many mistakes , and by the end of the 1st round the fight could be over , just like the Faber fight , the leg kicks he took had him in survival for the remaining 4 rounds

Early in his career , Edgar was a walk forward double leg fighter , with reasonable head movement and reasonable hands , he has to revert to that to beat Aldo IMHO , he will not be able to dance around Aldo , and pick his TD attempts , he simply will not , Aldo will punish his legs , Frankie will have to fight a different fight to be effective against Aldo

Something tells me he's too far evolved to go back to basics
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Old 08-12-2012, 09:06 AM   #10
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

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Originally Posted by thewinfella View Post
I have to say that i agree with almost every word of this thread

Apart from the Aldo bit ................... which i dont necessarily disagree with per say , i just dont think its as cut and dry as that

In short id prefer to see Frankie @45 but i believe he's still a top 55'er , so what do you do ?? continue in a division where you are competetive and do not have to cut weight , or begin cutting weight , a first for Franky in his career ??

Id like to see him @45 personally

Better for everyone


I don't think Edgar-Aldo is cut and dried exactly, but I'd back Edgar to win if it came to it (fully in the knowledge that he could catch a big strike and get finished at any time though).
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

Completely disagree. If he gets that win, he continues his path to being the best 155 ever. A close fight is a close fight and the BJ fight went his way, the rematch went his way even more, the draw was also rectified and in my eyes so was the Henderson fight.

Fact is, Edgar is good the first time and even better the second time. However you cut it though, 2 losses in a row to the same person, especially the champion, is tough to come back from. He either needs to go on a streak at 155 to get another shot or drop to 145.

Cerrone vs PEttis is probably the next contender for the title.
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

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Completely disagree. If he gets that win, he continues his path to being the best 155 ever. A close fight is a close fight and the BJ fight went his way, the rematch went his way even more, the draw was also rectified and in my eyes so was the Henderson fight.

Fact is, Edgar is good the first time and even better the second time. However you cut it though, 2 losses in a row to the same person, especially the champion, is tough to come back from. He either needs to go on a streak at 155 to get another shot or drop to 145.

Cerrone vs PEttis is probably the next contender for the title.
To fight to near death against top level opposition and win or to decisively finish top opposition are two different things

Frankie Edgar will never top BJ Penn as the best LW in history , why ?? because he's not as good as Penn was in his prime , Penn was and remains the best fighter to have held the world title @LW , nobody in the sport today (at the moment) looks like changing that maybe barring Aldo , time will tell ..................

Last edited by thewinfella; 08-12-2012 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

I wouldnt mind seeing Frankie vs Aldo but as many has said if he takes Aldos legkicks as he did Bendos then he is in for a long night and his in out pot shot tactic wouldnt really work against someone who has the same speed as you
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

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Completely disagree. If he gets that win, he continues his path to being the best 155 ever.
You completely disagree on the basis of "if he got the win", when in reality he didn't get the win? Pretty weird reason to 'completely disagree' over.
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Old 08-12-2012, 09:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: I'm really, really glad that Frankie Edgar lost...

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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
You completely disagree on the basis of "if he got the win", when in reality he didn't get the win? Pretty weird reason to 'completely disagree' over.
I'm not taking on the argument that Edgar is on his way to being the best lightweight ever. At the moment he is not the best lightweight, and his career is still unfinished. I'm taking the argument that last night's fight doesn't do anything to take away any greatness Edgar may go on to achieve.

In reality, Edgar got the win. The official result does not matter here. My perception is my reality, and I perceived him to be the winner. If you asked me to give you my lightweight rankings right now, Edgar would be occupying the top spot.

Do you think boxing historians look at Pernell Whitaker's record and think how much better his career would have been had he won the decision against Chavez? No, speaking in a general sense, they consider the Chavez fight a W instead of a D.

Where the official result ends up hurting Edgar is what fights he gets in the future. He may be going to 145. He won't be facing the best possible opponent in every fight, because he doesn't have a belt anymore. If Edgar continues to fight at 155, there are plenty of opportunities for him to prove his greatness.
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