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Old 09-09-2012, 07:40 AM   #31
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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Originally Posted by Goodnite, Irene View Post


I bet you think that avatar of yours really happened, too.

It's like you get dumber from post-to-post. LOL.
What stalker? That Shavers hit Ali with a right hand? He hit him with quite a few

And yes Ali has problems with jab and Wlad has a better longer jab than anyone he ever faced, perhaps bar Holmes
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:00 AM   #32
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

I can not think of any Ali or Holmes opponent that had the skill,power and jab of the klitschkos....The only benefit where Ali not Holmes always had the edge was his ability to adapt and amazing confidence but even that did not help him vs Frazier 1 or Norton. Foreman was very beatable if you could stay away and bring him into round 7, he would punch himself out....Vlad and Vitali had the jab to do it but they also add power and we all know Foreman took a good punch but the Klitschko also hit much harder than Lyle,Ali or Young.....Prime Klitschkos are dangerous, its the skilled heavyweights and a great counter power puncher or pressure fighter that would trouble them...Louis, Marciano, Charles come to mind but all 3 are outsized, if we go back in time we would have to subtract some size/Weight from the Klitscho's

I would bet the house that Vlads right hand and Vitali's coupled with the Jab are way too much for Holmes, who would not be able to avoid both brothers in an era and get a title, unless he fought Povetkin for the BS title
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:29 AM   #33
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

There are videos of some of the "all time great" fighters struggling against opponents who were cleary inferior to the Klitschkos. I think 36 year old Vladimir Klitschko, Klitschko at his current age, would beat the 36 year old Ali who lost to newby-pro fighter Leon Spinks who had a grand total of 8 pro fights at the time he took Ali's belt. Also, some of these "all time great fighters" lacked opponents who were strong enough to force them to go backwards and these "all time great fighters" would not have been nearly as great or dominant versus somebody who could put them on the back foot. I watched videos of Ali vs Karl Mildenbarger and Foreman vs Pires and think that Ali and Foreman would have had much different reactions to Klitschko punches than to the punches of Mildenbarger and Pires.
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:42 PM   #34
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

Too many variables to consider. Pre-Steward Wlad gets sparked by a bunch of fighters. If we're being picky and assume that everyone has access to modern nutrition and training techniques, then post-Steward Wlad still gets sparked by a fair few fighters despite his physical advantages.

Vitali, I just don't know. He's awkward and a fairly intelligent fighter with natural physical advantages and an iron chin. Ali ruins him by systematic beatdown imo, but Vitali is just too big, too awkward and too skilled for everyone else to compete, with the possible exception of Foreman, but even then we know Vitali had the chin to rope-a-dope.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:44 AM   #35
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

I don't know why it's all this 'if they were around then they'd blah blah blah'

Send them back all 'roided up like they are now, they still wouldn't be dominant.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:49 AM   #36
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post
I can not think of any Ali or Holmes opponent that had the skill,power and jab of the klitschkos....The only benefit where Ali not Holmes always had the edge was his ability to adapt and amazing confidence but even that did not help him vs Frazier 1 or Norton. Foreman was very beatable if you could stay away and bring him into round 7, he would punch himself out....Vlad and Vitali had the jab to do it but they also add power and we all know Foreman took a good punch but the Klitschko also hit much harder than Lyle,Ali or Young.....Prime Klitschkos are dangerous, its the skilled heavyweights and a great counter power puncher or pressure fighter that would trouble them...Louis, Marciano, Charles come to mind but all 3 are outsized, if we go back in time we would have to subtract some size/Weight from the Klitscho's

I would bet the house that Vlads right hand and Vitali's coupled with the Jab are way too much for Holmes, who would not be able to avoid both brothers in an era and get a title, unless he fought Povetkin for the BS title
Holmes' jab would be too quick and would stop Wlad getting his rhythm.

Vitali is a borderline feather fist, Holmes would batter him.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:11 PM   #37
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

People seeing Vitali as some h2h monster baffle me. Well I mean I used to be one of them but his win list is so shockingly top light that any h2h monster claims are seriously spurious. I mean ike has a better resume imo.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:59 PM   #38
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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How would the Kbros fare if they fought in the 60s-70s?
Only Ali and Foreman, along wih small Frazier and glass-jawed Norton would be serious threats to either K-brother...... Ronny Lyle and Ernesto Shavers would be game opponents, but also carved up lambs in the end.... Jerry Quarry would be murdered....... Ellis and Patterson have zero chance of victory......


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Old 09-10-2012, 02:01 PM   #39
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

1978 Larry Holmes is a very live dog in winning a dec. over the K-bros......

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Old 09-10-2012, 11:08 PM   #40
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict View Post
How would the Kbros fare if they fought in the 60s-70s?
They'd do very well.

Only the very best would give them problems... Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier. I could see Frazier getting whacked out by the mid rounds though.

I doubt Patterson, Johansson, Liston, Terrell, Ellis, L. Spinks, or Norton would give them much trouble. Who else? I couldn't imagine Young, Lyle, Quarry, Shavers, or Bugner doing much. Folley and Machen were good but too small and not durable enough.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:10 PM   #41
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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People seeing Vitali as some h2h monster baffle me. Well I mean I used to be one of them but his win list is so shockingly top light that any h2h monster claims are seriously spurious. I mean ike has a better resume imo.
Well, he's never been down and he's never been behind on points. He's also 15-2 (12) in world title fights. IDK, why people think he is good.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:13 PM   #42
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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Originally Posted by Goodnite, Irene View Post
Vitali is hilariously light-hitting. I cannot believe I still see people mentioning him as heavy-handed. It's stupifyingly stupid.
Light Hitting? Seriously? Well, he is effective at stopping people. 41 out of 45 wins are by KO. It's like saying Archie Moore was a light hitter... even if he was, he scored more KOs than anybody ever did.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:11 AM   #43
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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Well, he's never been down and he's never been behind on points. He's also 15-2 (12) in world title fights. IDK, why people think he is good.
When you don't fight the best you tend to avoid things like knockdowns and decision losses.

Bogus stat with no context. He beat Kirk Johnson and Lewis retired so you could probably give him that, Sanders and Williams but every other title fight he's been quite cleary not the number 1 which translates back in time as just another contender.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:15 AM   #44
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
When you don't fight the best you tend to avoid things like knockdowns and decision losses.

Bogus stat with no context. He beat Kirk Johnson and Lewis retired so you could probably give him that, Sanders and Williams but every other title fight he's been quite cleary not the number 1 which translates back in time as just another contender.
Which has nothing to do with whether he is a head to head monster or not. He also has fought some of the best if not all of them. Lennox obviously was the best, Sanders was coming off beating Wlad, Kirk Johnson was coming off being robbed against Ruiz and was really unbeaten, Peter was WBC champion, Gomez was an ex-cruser champion with only 1 fluke loss

I'm not a Vitali fan at all but anyone who's boxed at a reasonable level knows full well he's 1 of the hardest to fight in history. Getting past his jab and counter right is an upward struggle for most fighters in history. Himself and Wlad are the biggest top20 HWs by a distance, probably 5-6 natural weight classes heavier than the likes of Marciano, Patterson and Dempsey while being 3-4 weight classes bigger than Frazier. In terms of weight ratio it's like asking a Welterweight to beat a Light Heavyweight

On the outside he is very hard to outjab/outbox, no one's managed it. Wlad, Ali and Holmes are the only boxers I see as having a chance to match him on the outside

To beat him most boxers really need to come forward applying pressure while slipping jabs and back him up with power shots. Lennox, Byrd and Chisora had varying levels of success with this strategy. Still he can counter punch you while doing it and hurt you. Despite being an arm puncher he has good enough power to hurt and press back most opponents. Pressure is an achilles heal for him still, but no one under 200lbs should realistically be expecting to beat him. Frazier maybe has a shot despite the huge weight disparity but Vitali would be the second hardest hitter he faced after Foreman, so Vitali stopping Frazier is a reasonable possibility
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:17 AM   #45
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Default Re: If the Klitschkos Fought in the 60s-70s.

What if you had a time machine and you would transfer Usain Bolt to 70s olympics, I wonder how would it play out. Hmm...
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