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Old 09-05-2012, 07:31 AM   #1
MMJoe
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Default Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

Joe Louis 26-0 in title defenses, 22 K0's.
(Including KO win over 3-3 Johnny Davis which may have actually been a exhibition)

Title challange record: 1-1 1 KO

Total years as champion: 11 years, 7 months

Total successful title fights; 27 with 23 KO's

Record against undefeated fighters: 2-1 1 KO

***

Julio Cesar Chavez 27-2 in title defenses, 18 KO's.
(3 divisions, plus 2 more in title unifications, if you wish to count them).

Title challange record: 4-2-2 3 KO's

Total years as champion: 12 years, 2 months

Total successful title fights; 31 with 21 KO's

Record against undefeated fighters: 7-2 6 K0's
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:32 AM   #2
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

Louis is greater for me, no question.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:14 AM   #3
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

Also, MMJ, Louis half norver leaved his home country for professional fight. He is protected unlike Chavez who is does go America much of time and even Spainany.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:21 AM   #4
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
Also, MMJ, Louis half norver leaved his home country for professional fight. He is protected unlike Chavez who is does go America much of time and even Spainany.
It sounds like you agree with me somewhat.
As advertised many of Louis defenses were "bums". In modern times a 3-3 fighter like Davis would never get anywhere near a main event let alone a world title fight.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

Louis vs (former, current, future) world champs: 12-3 10

chavez vs (former, current, future) world champs: 17-4 10
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:41 AM   #6
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

Come on, man...As a Mexican and JCC sr being my favorite fighter of all time, even i can't agree with this.


Also very cool to know that both Louis and Chavez hold the record for most KO's in title fights: 21
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:04 AM   #7
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zopilote View Post
Come on, man...As a Mexican and JCC sr being my favorite fighter of all time, even i can't agree with this.


Also very cool to know that both Louis and Chavez hold the record for most KO's in title fights: 21
The only stat Chavez shares with Louis, all the rest of the stats Chavez surpasses Louis.
Had chavez title fights been 15 instead of 12, who knows how many more KO wins he would have had in title fights...?

Last edited by MMJoe; 09-05-2012 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:13 AM   #8
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

By the time Louis reached 69 total fights in his career,
he was..........66-3 52 KO's.
Chavez was....69-0 61 KO's.

Another stat win for Chavez.
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:39 AM   #9
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

I hope you didn't count the sweetpea fight
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

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Originally Posted by philgood View Post
I hope you didn't count the sweetpea fight
I count it as a draw.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:29 AM   #11
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

Chavez is going to win the battle of statistics against nearly everybody because that's what his career was largely built on, a statistic.

It's not difficult to understand why he had more title fights than Louis considering that every high profile fight since the 1980's has been contested for some type of a title. Doesn't mean that the people contesting for it were anything close to being the best in the division.

Having a record of 12-3 against title holders in Louis's era was amazing (you only had one belt to contest for and only two different divisions that Louis could compete against), having a record of 17-4 against the likes of Sammy Fuentes and Lonnie Smith is fair enough but his record against men who were recognized as the best in their divisions at some point in time is definitely a lesser statistic.

Chavez's title reign was not continous and extremely questionable after 1993. Quite frankly he did not deserve to hold any kind of a belt from that point onwards.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:46 AM   #12
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

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Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
Chavez is going to win the battle of statistics against nearly everybody because that's what his career was largely built on, a statistic.

It's not difficult to understand why he had more title fights than Louis considering that every high profile fight since the 1980's has been contested for some type of a title. Doesn't mean that the people contesting for it were anything close to being the best in the division.

Having a record of 12-3 against title holders in Louis's era was amazing (you only had one belt to contest for and only two different divisions that Louis could compete against), having a record of 17-4 against the likes of Sammy Fuentes and Lonnie Smith is fair enough but his record against men who were recognized as the best in their divisions at some point in time is definitely lesser.

Chavez's title reign was not continous and extremely questionable from 1993 onwards. Quite frankly he did not deserve to hold any kind of a belt from that point onwards.
I think 1993 is a good benchmark in his career. He finally lost after 87 wins to Pernell Whitaker, the fight being officially being scored a draw there by ****ing Whitaker out of the biggest win of his career.
chavez offically lost 3 fights later, that to Randall and in the return match beat Randall by an 8 round tech decision where Chavez apparently won by quitting (huh?). Yes, another decision at least as shady as the Whitaker draw. So there was twice that Chavez was able to win, or not lose by getting a big benefit of the doubt from the officials.
Chavez had gone 3-3 in his last 6 fights, not officially but "losses" to Randall twice and Whitaker once. After this, the diminished and obviously past-his-prime chavez was still able to rackup quite a few clear wins without controversial help from the officials against the world's best fighters.

Chavez reign wasn't continious because he kept moving up in weigh
and winning new titles. Not because he lost. Are you going to use
that as a minus against Chavez' accomplishments, really?

Last edited by MMJoe; 09-05-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:54 AM   #13
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

Using the same measuring stick as I used in my examples of Chavez lucky offical decision calls, by the same token, Louis was lucky he didn't lose the decision to Walcott in their first fight, Louis wasn't a force after that fight. Louis, behind on the cards luckily KO'd Walcott in the rematch and retired.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

I don't think Chavez scored any noteworthy wins after 1994. Taylor and Lopez were even more washed up than he was, and Gamache never truly was a good fighter with any business at 140 lbs.

Louis atleast settled the issue with Walcott and ended his campaign as a world champion afterwards, only coming back as a challenger to take on Charles.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:59 AM   #15
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Default Re: Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
I don't think Chavez scored any noteworthy wins after 1994. Taylor and Lopez were even more washed up than he was, and Gamache never truly was a good fighter with any business at 140 lbs.

Louis atleast settled the issue with Walcott and ended his campaign as a world champion afterwards, only coming back as a challenger to take on Charles.
Louis had no noteworthy wins after Walcott.
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