Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by pecho26

You are not open mided at all.Sounds to me like youre on a witch hunt.
You open up a thread how s&c are ok but then goes and blast them and mock everything you dont understand like mumbo jumbo,chavez didnt have this and that,s&c coach must be a boxer bla bla bla.Got a lot of hate for s&c coaches.I really cant grasp why.
Btw Nonito Donaire didnt run 1 km in his preparation for his last bout.What was the result?He is working with conte form 2010 same as Berto and guees who sought his advice as well?ANDRE WARD(prior to his fight witk Kesller he had 11 trainings with conte).
The same ward that has hunter as his trainer,dont get me wrong i like hunter as a trainer and i think that he is a phenomenal boxing coach,but when he talks about "imbalances" of the body of Amir khan i laugh like hell cause im sure he doesnt know what the hell he is talking about.
this article made me cringe:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Cotto has been working with Phil Landman from 2007 and now has a boxing trainer who is phenomenal and who understand both worlds,which is very rare,Pac has working with Ariza from i dunno when.Just a few examples as well.

Pecho, Thanks for including that link, it makes a lot of good points against S&C guys. Thanks for this also "he is a phenomenal boxing coach,but when he talks about "imbalances" of the body of Amir khan i laugh like hell cause im sure he doesnt know what the hell he is talking about." Hunter I would think has more insight into things when it concerns his fighters than an S&C guy. You laugh like hell at Hunter's 'er lack of knowledge, this is exactly why I dislike S&C guys, they are arrogant to the extreme. Everybody is ignorant but them. In that article it mentioned a guy I have had dealings with personally, Alex Ariza. The guy is totally out of control, working the corner as a cutman, and working more as a cornerman. When he has absolutely no experience in boxing. This has been my experience with different S&C guys after awhile they think they are also boxing trainers then they second guess everything. Ariza, wanted to train my guy, which at first I thought that was a good thing, to have Ariza working my guy, wow! Then Ariza started working my guys corner while sparring and giving instructions, wtf. Ariza is a S&C guy he has no business trying to train or give a fighter instructions between rds. Ariza just took over, well I ended that. Another time a S&C guy was brought in and he dumped on everything, right from the get-go. My last post included something about Salvador Sanchez, he had old school trainers, who did things the old fashioned way, a lot of hard work. Elite Mexican trainers always had a private doctor on hand to ck heartrate from the early sixties maybe even before that. These doctors weren't out front, like today's S&C guys. You never saw guys, doing bodybuilder poses at weigh in's now fergitboutit. It has become the standard. Hunter's saying that while fighters look good externally what about internally? If S&C guys would not try to take over then they are welcome. Otherwise they are not needed and if they are than it has to be just conditioning. If The S&C guys accept their roles as support staff then I agree they can be very helpful. If those old Mexican dinosaurs can work with a doctor they can work S&C guys. S&C guys should ck their ego's at the door to the gym and stay out of corners.

[pecho26]

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

Pecho, Thanks for including that link, it makes a lot of good points against S&C guys. Thanks for this also "he is a phenomenal boxing coach,but when he talks about "imbalances" of the body of Amir khan i laugh like hell cause im sure he doesnt know what the hell he is talking about." Hunter I would think has more insight into things when it concerns his fighters than an S&C guy. You laugh like hell at Hunter's 'er lack of knowledge, this is exactly why I dislike S&C guys, they are arrogant to the extreme. Everybody is ignorant but them. In that article it mentioned a guy I have had dealings with personally, Alex Ariza. The guy is totally out of control, working the corner as a cutman, and working more as a cornerman. When he has absolutely no experience in boxing. This has been my experience with different S&C guys after awhile they think they are also boxing trainers then they second guess everything. Ariza, wanted to train my guy, which at first I thought that was a good thing, to have Ariza working my guy, wow! Then Ariza started working my guys corner while sparring and giving instructions, wtf. Ariza is a S&C guy he has no business trying to train or give a fighter instructions between rds. Ariza just took over, well I ended that. Another time a S&C guy was brought in and he dumped on everything, right from the get-go. My last post included something about Salvador Sanchez, he had old school trainers, who did things the old fashioned way, a lot of hard work. Elite Mexican trainers always had a private doctor on hand to ck heartrate from the early sixties maybe even before that. These doctors weren't out front, like today's S&C guys. You never saw guys, doing bodybuilder poses at weigh in's now fergitboutit. It has become the standard. Hunter's saying that while fighters look good externally what about internally? If S&C guys would not try to take over then they are welcome. Otherwise they are not needed and if they are than it has to be just conditioning. If The S&C guys accept their roles as support staff then I agree they can be very helpful. If those old Mexican dinosaurs can work with a doctor they can work S&C guys. S&C guys should ck their ego's at the door to the gym and stay out of corners.

Sure,sure and earth is flat as well.

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by dealt_with

i mentioned all those things because they are all factors to take into account. I'm not trying to make you feel inadequate about your knowledge, your knowledge is inadequate. Believe me i dont feel inadequate at all.


You make no sense from one sentence to the next, you've been punched in the head a few times yourself haven't you?
Naw, sorry to burst your bubble, it's natural.

A strength and conditioning coach has absolutely nothing to do with a fighter looking the part or having a six pack, it's about getting their athletes body ready for whatever sport it is they're competing in.
It sounds good, but as almost all weigh in's now include the fighter showing his sixpack and striking bodybuilder poses hmmmm. I know its only a coincidence that these guys have s&c guys working with them.
There's a boxing coach for boxing and a s+c guy for conditioning. If that was or is the case than yes but it clearly isnt. The s+c coach isn't going to be able to do a thing for the fighter when it comes to boxing skill and the boxing coach isn't going to be able to do much in regards to getting the fighter into peak physical condition.
Now what is it that you s&c guys cant understand, boxing trainers have gotten their fighters ready for over two hundred years that statement my friend is just dumb and it shows how arrogant s&c guys are. That there have been new and improved conditioning methods is fantastic, but dont act like all these boxing trainers are know nothngs.

Since it's the sport of boxing then obviously the boxing coach is going to have a far bigger influence on the outcome of a fight, if his guy isn't as fit or as strong as he could be his skills might still be more than enough to win comfortably. Simply being fit is never going to win a fight if you can't fight. For you to claim that the boxing coach is going to come up with a better conditioning routine than somebody who specialises in that is just plain idiotic. You must not know too much about what good trainers do, or know boxing history, a good trainer builds a team, the conditioning is one aspect only, believe it or not there have always been s&c guys throughout boxing history, go back as far as john l sullivan, he had an s&c guy. You didn't see sullivan strike bodybuilder poses, or displaying his beautiful six pack, the old school guys did what had to be done to get their fighters ready so give them some credit. Alex ariza is a great example of a s&c guy gone wild, now he gives fighters instructions and works the cuts, less you think it only ariza it's not, read the article that pecho posted on his post, of course you'll say that everybody quoted is full of.....
Which makes you a fucking idiot, you're not open minded at all.

and i am that idiot lmao

[dempsey1234]

Sorry for re-posting but my last post, isn't really clear. I tried capitalizing my answers but they didnt show up. So he it goes again.

It sounds good, but as almost all weigh in's now include the fighter showing his sixpack and striking bodybuilder poses hmmmm. I know its only a coincidence that these guys have s&c guys working with them.

There's a boxing coach for boxing and a s+c guy for conditioning.

If that was or is the case than yes but it clearly isnt.


Now what is it that you s&c guys cant understand, boxing trainers have gotten their fighters ready for over two hundred years that statement my friend is just dumb and it shows how arrogant s&c guys are. That there have been new and improved conditioning methods is fantastic, but dont act like all these boxing trainers are know nothngs.

You must not know too much about what good trainers do, or know boxing history, a good trainer builds a team, the conditioning is one aspect only, believe it or not there have always been s&c guys throughout boxing history, go back as far as john l sullivan, he had an s&c guy. You didn't see sullivan strike bodybuilder poses, or displaying his beautiful six pack, the old school guys did what had to be done to get their fighters ready so give them some credit. Alex ariza is a great example of a s&c guy gone wild, now he gives fighters instructions and works the cuts, less you think it only ariza it's not, read the article that pecho posted on his post, of course you'll say that everybody quoted is full of.....

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by pecho26

Sure,sure and earth is flat as well.

Brilliant simply brilliant OMG you S&C guys are a trip.

[Jdsm]

You keep making sweeping generalizations and talking in absolutes, not a great way to go about illustrating your point.

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by Jdsm

You keep making sweeping generalizations and talking in absolutes, not a great way to go about illustrating your point.

You are right, I guess my writing is not up to par and I am probably not explaining myself where somebody else can understand. The title of this thread says it all. Read the first post. Why it has primarily gotten to be a discussion about S&C is beyond me. To me this illustrates the arrogance that some people have. The S&C guys and boxing should be on the same page but from what I have seen they are not. They seem to work against each other. This is WHAT I HAVE SEEN in the real world, and this article quoting elite trainers fully illustrates this. I believe a good S&C guy is useful, I do, believe it or not. Some of what you read here is unbelievable and I am not just talking about my posts.
Here is what I am saying:
1-Old school trainers used what they had available at the time and did alright.
2-Boxing trainers in general are doing the best they can they are not ignorant cos they might not know everything there is to know about the human body.
3-S&C guys are not neccessary for a 4rd fighter, any decent coach can get a guy ready for a four rd fight.
4-S&C guys are useful in certain cases

[Jdsm]

I see what you're saying, but when it comes to the elite it isn't really a case of 'what works', it's a case of what 'what is closest to optimal' and often a boxing coach alone doesn't have physiological understanding to impliment training methods that are appropriate to the situation. BUT, what is optimal from a purely mechanistic standpoint may not be optimal for a certain individual; it's very situational.

A lot of boxing trainers are ignorant though unfortunately:
"Coach, I've been doing *insert beneficial training method*"
"Na fuck that, just run every day"

What is lost in most of these discussions is context and as I mentioned, it often results in huge generalizations.

[brown bomber]

Originally Posted by pecho26

You are not open mided at all.Sounds to me like youre on a witch hunt.
You open up a thread how s&c are ok but then goes and blast them and mock everything you dont understand like mumbo jumbo,chavez didnt have this and that,s&c coach must be a boxer bla bla bla.Got a lot of hate for s&c coaches.I really cant grasp why.
Btw Nonito Donaire didnt run 1 km in his preparation for his last bout.What was the result?He is working with conte form 2010 same as Berto and guees who sought his advice as well?ANDRE WARD(prior to his fight witk Kesller he had 11 trainings with conte).
The same ward that has hunter as his trainer,dont get me wrong i like hunter as a trainer and i think that he is a phenomenal boxing coach,but when he talks about "imbalances" of the body of Amir khan i laugh like hell cause im sure he doesnt know what the hell he is talking about.
this article made me cringe:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Cotto has been working with Phil Landman from 2007 and now has a boxing trainer who is phenomenal and who understand both worlds,which is very rare,Pac has working with Ariza from i dunno when.Just a few examples as well.

[OMGWTF]

If it aint broke why fix it?

The truth is old school training is more effective than what most modern boxers are doing.

A poor mans workout is more effective than any fancy high tech gym environment.

However old school training while effective and proven, isnt optimal. It dosnt take advantage of the latest developments in sports science.

Ive yet to see any boxer get the best of both worlds. But I havnt looked that closely either.

I bet Manny Pacmans strength and conditioning coach is top notch, and is about as good as it gets in the boxing world.

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by Jdsm

I see what you're saying, but when it comes to the elite it isn't really a case of 'what works', it's a case of what 'what is closest to optimal' and often a boxing coach alone doesn't have physiological understanding to impliment training methods that are appropriate to the situation. BUT, what is optimal from a purely mechanistic standpoint may not be optimal for a certain individual; it's very situational.

A lot of boxing trainers are ignorant though unfortunately:
"Coach, I've been doing *insert beneficial training method*"
"Na fuck that, just run every day"

What is lost in most of these discussions is context and as I mentioned, it often results in huge generalizations.

A lot of boxing trainers are ignorant though unfortunately:
"Coach, I've been doing *insert beneficial training method*"
"Na fuck that, just run every day"

If you have that guy as your coach he gave you good advice RUN, run far, far away from him.

[scrap]

The appliance of Science, is not always obvious. The obvious is not always Science. .

[pecho26]

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

Brilliant simply brilliant OMG you S&C guys are a trip.

Yea and hampsters are awesome!

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by pecho26

Yea and hampsters are awesome!

'Er hampsters, huh????? Is that more S&C mumble jumbo??

[Jdsm]

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

A lot of boxing trainers are ignorant though unfortunately:
"Coach, I've been doing *insert beneficial training method*"
"Na fuck that, just run every day"

If you have that guy as your coach he gave you good advice RUN, run far, far away from him.

No, thankfully my coach never did, but there are a lot with that mentality.