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Old 09-12-2012, 11:49 AM   #16
SuzieQ49
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

LOL at fitz knocking Ward out with one punch
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

I love Ward but few at 168 can punch like Fitz so you can never count him out....besides very difficult to judge by old film of Fitz, we can tell by the people he stopped that the man had talent and the old timers all rank him highly. Ward is very talented but not sure how he would do vs a fast mover like Calzage or a tremendous puncher....he did wonderful vs Kessler and Froch and Abraham and that speaks volumes....I would like to see him stay at 168, which is one of the toughest divisions in boxing at this time....175 is less talented,has always been but there are bigger taller men at 175 who will eventually move up to heavyweight....I love Ward at 168 and his resume is deep but not yet as deep as Fitz or even Calzage
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:09 PM   #18
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
LOL at fitz knocking Ward out with one punch
Half of Fitz's opponents, from middleweight to heavyweight, failed to see the 3rd round. He could KO anyone.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:38 PM   #19
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

Most of those opponents were pre developed bandy legged wide girthed hipped saloon fighters
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

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Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post
I love Ward but few at 168 can punch like Fitz so you can never count him out....besides very difficult to judge by old film of Fitz, we can tell by the people he stopped that the man had talent and the old timers all rank him highly. Ward is very talented but not sure how he would do vs a fast mover like Calzage or a tremendous puncher....he did wonderful vs Kessler and Froch and Abraham and that speaks volumes....I would like to see him stay at 168, which is one of the toughest divisions in boxing at this time....175 is less talented,has always been but there are bigger taller men at 175 who will eventually move up to heavyweight....I love Ward at 168 and his resume is deep but not yet as deep as Fitz or even Calzage
i think he's at least even with calzaghe in terms of quality, albeit not quantity. in fact, i'd say ward has more top flight wins than calzaghe but far fewer overall against contenders
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:47 PM   #21
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

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Most of those opponents were pre developed bandy legged wide girthed hipped saloon fighters
I understand this, but no one else in his time and few if any since were so ridiculously destructive, and so ridiculously destructive over such a great weight range. I don't even think Langford quite ranks as high in the power department.

Don't get me wrong, I like Ward... a lot. And I think boxing went through a significant development post-Fitz. However, punching power has never gone out of fashion, especially the likes of which Fitz possessed.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:51 PM   #22
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

Funnily enough Ward clinches just as much as any of the pre-Walker Law octopi.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

News just in: Darnell Boone hits harder than Fitz.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:16 PM   #24
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

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News just in: Darnell Boone hits harder than Fitz.
Yeah. Sure he does.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:21 PM   #25
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

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Yeah. Sure he does.
I hope you don't think I hold that view. That was to the 'LOL @ Fitz hurting Jesus Christ with 4 Oz gloves' brigade.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

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I hope you don't think I hold that view. That was to the 'LOL @ Fitz hurting Jesus Christ with 4 Oz gloves' brigade.
Man, sarcasm can be hard to read sometimes.

Fitz and Langford are the two guys from the post-Sullivan/pre-Greb-Dempsey era who really impress me. Just sayin'...
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

No love for Tommy Burns?
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:41 PM   #28
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

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No love for Tommy Burns?
Over-achiever.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:50 PM   #29
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

Yeah, I wasn't being serious. Again.

Nice right hand against some pissed up Aussie though

Jeanette showed a proto-Roy Jones thang in there with Langford. Didn't look too bad IMO.

But I agree with you, we've discussed Langford before but I think Fitz's approach would be all kinds of awkward for any 'modern' Sweet Scientist. And he'd draw mistakes and see openings.

With his power he has a chance. Even against a fighter of Ward's ability.

And Ward, who is not a big puncher, does not possess the clout of a Jim Jeffries, Peter Maher or Joe Choynski regardless of any developments in technique or conditioning. So Fitz won't fall over inside a round simply because he's out of his time, so he'll have time to strike.

And Ward can really suffocate his man but Fitz trained Greco and had immeasurable upper body strength. He isn't a sitting duck here, is what I mean, even if everything seems to point to a win for Ward.

Also, for all talk of Fitz seeing things he's never seen before how will pillow wearing Ward deal with getting smacked in the face and body with Fitz's gloves?

Both men have their advantages here. 15 rounds is fair. And Ward needed to take the last round off against Froch.

Similarly I think Fitz was much better against the bigger targets. Ward is strong but also quicker than (you'd think) Nonpareil or Jim Hall. That's guess work, but Ward is pretty quick even for today.

I'm not making a pick because of all the variables involved. Cross era fights like this are fairly difficult to analyse.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:02 PM   #30
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Default Re: Andre Ward vs Bob Fitzsimmons

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Yeah, I wasn't being serious. Again.

Nice right hand against some pissed up Aussie though

Jeanette showed a proto-Roy Jones thang in there with Langford. Didn't look too bad IMO.

But I agree with you, we've discussed Langford before but I think Fitz's approach would be all kinds of awkward for any 'modern' Sweet Scientist. And he'd draw mistakes and see openings.

With his power he has a chance. Even against a fighter of Ward's ability.

And Ward, who is not a big puncher, does not possess the clout of a Jim Jeffries, Peter Maher or Joe Choynski regardless of any developments in technique or conditioning. So Fitz won't fall over inside a round simply because he's out of his time, so he'll have time to strike.

And Ward can really suffocate his man but Fitz trained Greco and had immeasurable upper body strength. He isn't a sitting duck here, is what I mean, even if everything seems to point to a win for Ward.

Also, for all talk of Fitz seeing things he's never seen before how will pillow wearing Ward deal with getting smacked in the face and body with Fitz's gloves?

Both men have their advantages here. 15 rounds is fair. And Ward needed to take the last round off against Froch.

Similarly I think Fitz was much better against the bigger targets. Ward is strong but also quicker than (you'd think) Nonpareil or Jim Hall. That's guess work, but Ward is pretty quick even for today.

I'm not making a pick because of all the variables involved. Cross era fights like this are fairly difficult to analyse.
Yes, making an emphatic pick is just silly.

Weird about Jeneatte. I thought he looked pretty bad on film, ducking in with that jab, moving in and out in straight lines and leaving all kind of openings. I can understand being skittish in the ring against Langford, though. If anecdotal evidence is to be believed, he hit on another level than just about everyone else.
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