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Old 09-11-2012, 04:45 PM   #151
Leonit
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

I can't understand how Moreno is ahead of Mares p4p. Somebody has an explanation?
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:13 PM   #152
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bballchump11 View Post
I had Bradley in my p4p list for a while, but I remember last year having to argue with people over who should be rated higher, Cotto or Bradley and I was saying Bradley



this is all ****ed up
which part
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:30 PM   #153
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faerun View Post
The double standard they applied when Pac robbed JMM but got jobbed against Bradley is staggering.
Pacquiao vs Marquez 3 = Close Fight.

Pacquiao vs Bradley = Pacquiao won but did not dominate like what some others say.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:38 PM   #154
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana View Post
  • Danny Flexen, Boxing News: 115-113 Bradley
  • Cameron Sharpe, Boxing Fancast: 115-115 Draw
  • Chris Manix, Sports Illustrated: 115-113 Pacquiao
  • Lem Satterfield, Ring Magazine: 115-113 Pacquiao
  • Gordon Marino, The Wall Street Journal: 115-113 Pacquiao
  • Armando Alvarez, Telemundo: 115-113 Pacquiao
  • Jake Donovan, ***********.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
  • Terry Dooley, ***********.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
  • Jordan Capobianco, BoxingNews24.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Franklin McNeil, Newark Star-Ledger: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Brett Okamoto, ESPN: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Steve Bunce, BoxNation.com/BBC: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Juan Manuel Marquez: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Max Kellerman, HBO: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Andreas Hale, FightNews.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Brian Arman Graham, Sports Illustrated: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • George Willis, The New York Post: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Rick Reeno, ***********.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Ben Thompson, FightHype.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Tim Smith, New York Daily News: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Suge Green, On the Grind Boxing Radio: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Steve Zemach, The Queensbury Rules.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Michael Nelson, TheCruelestSport.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Tom Gray, SecondsOut.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Joel Sebastionelli, LIITR Box Radio: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • CheckHook.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • ********************: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Ricky Hatton: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Wayne McCullough: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Ken Hissner, DogHouseBoxing.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Alexander Belenky, Sport-Express.ru: 116-112 Pacquiao
  • Rob Day, ***************: 117-112 Pacquiao
  • Ryan Burton, ***********.com: 117-112 Pacquiao
  • Matt Youmans, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Graham Houston, FightWriter.com/FightNews.com/ESPN: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Stephen Edwards, BoxingTalk.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Kieran Mulvaney, ESPN: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Tim Dahlberg, Associated Press: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Ron Borges, Boston Herald: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Cliff Rold, ***********.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Chris Robinson, ***********.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Steve Carp, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Ronnie Shields, boxing trainer: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • David Mayo, The Grand Rapids Press: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Robert Little, BlackSportsOnline.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Jorge Hernandez, The Low Blow.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • David Greisman, ***********.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Benny Henderson, DogHouseBoxing.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Ryan Phillips, BleacherReport.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Graham Parker, The Guardian (UK): 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Ed Graney, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Luis Sandoval, ***********.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Jonathan Sakti, Comcast Sports Net Bay Area: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Richie Tomasini, Comcast Sports Net Bay Area: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Tim Starks, The Queensbury Rules: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Champ Ross, DaTruthBoxing.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Lance Pugmire, Los Angeles Times: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Darren Velasco, 8CountNews.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Ryan Maquinana, Comcast Sports Net Bay Area: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • George Diaz, The Orlando Sentinel: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Steve Kim, MaxBoxing.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Doug Fischer, Ring Magazine: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • FightersRated.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Luke Thomas, MMAFighting.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Scott Christ, BadLeftHook.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Tommy Gunn, *****************: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Charles Farrell, No Holds Barred Radio Show: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Gareth Davies, London Telegraph: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • John Perretti, No Holds Barred Radio Show: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • John Raspanti, DogHouseBoxing.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Ron Lewis, Primetime/BBC: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Brent Brookhouse, SBNation.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Jake Emen, ProBoxing-Fans.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Alexey Sukachev, Sports.ru: 117-111 Pacquiao
  • Kevin Mitchell, The Guardian (UK): 118-112 Pacquiao
  • Steve Lillis, BoxNation: 118-111 Pacquiao
  • Nick Xouris, FightHype.com: 118-111 Pacquiao
  • Brett Newton, Pound4Pound.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Joseph Herron, FightSaga.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Mark Lyons, 8CountNews.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Danny "Swift" Garcia: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Mike Koppinger, Ring Magazine: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Gabriel Montoya, MaxBoxing.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Ryan Songalia, Ring Magazine: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Robert Ecksel, Boxing.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Pete O'Brien, USA Today: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • John McCormick, BoxingTalk.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Victor Contreras, The Sacramento Bee: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Eric Raskin, HBO/TheSweetScience.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Chuck Giampa, Showtime: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • John Russell, boxing trainer (Buster Douglas trainer): 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Rich Marotta, KFI Los Angeles: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Jeff Mayweather: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Ace Freeman, FightFan.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Kelsey McCarson, TheSweetScience.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Mario Cabrera, The Boxing Republic: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Ramon Aranda, 3MoreRounds.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Colin Seymour, Examiner.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Nigel Collins, Espn.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Paddy Cronan, On the Grind Boxing Radio: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Denzil Stone, OnTheBreak.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Phil Jay, WorldBoxingNews.net: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Geoffrey Ciani, EastSideBoxing.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Michael Rosenthal, Ring Magazine: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Eugeny Pilipenko, Vringe.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Vadim Zhuk, Championat.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Ken Pollitt, the13thround.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
  • Ted Sares, Boxing.com: 119-111 Pacquiao
  • Allen Barra, The Atlantic: 119-110 Pacquiao
  • Barry Tompkins, Showtime: 119-110 Pacquiao
  • Vittorio Tafur, The San Francisco Chronicle: 119-109 Pacquiao
  • Ray Markarian, TheSweetScience.com: 119-109 Pacquiao
  • Harold Lederman, HBO: 119-109 Pacquiao
  • Dan Rafael, ESPN: 119-109 Pacquiao
  • Max Parker, BoxingWatchers.com: 119-109 Pacquiao
  • Scott Sawitz, Fox Sports/Inside Fights: 119-109 Pacquiao
  • Leroy Cleveland, FightSaga.com: 119-109 Pacquiao
  • Michael Woods, ESPN: 119-109 Pacquiao
  • Michael Marley, BoxingConfidential.com/Examiner.com: 119-109 Pacquiao
  • Skip Bayless, ESPN: 119-109 Pacquiao
  • Among the experts above, 120 scored the bout for Pacquiao, 1 scored the bout a draw, and 1 scored the bout for Bradley.
  • None of the scores for Pacquiao was offered by Philippine media.
  • The draw score and the score for Bradley were not provided by American media.
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Boxing News need to fire Danny Flexen's arse. He don't now shit about boxing.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:43 PM   #155
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonit View Post
I can't understand how Moreno is ahead of Mares p4p. Somebody has an explanation?
Breakdown of Moreno's career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickhaus View Post
You're mostly thinking of the same guys.

Cermeno was pretty good, tricky and a little dirty. Twice beat Cristian Mijares. Since then, he's hit a run of bad luck, losing a debatable decision to Victor Terrazas and getting hurt against Fernando Montiel, and then losing to Sasha Bakhtin (in a fight I know nothing about).

Sidorenko was pretty good at the point when he and Moreno met and was very inactive and had lost something by the time he got spanked by Donaire (although it was still a respectable win for Donaire). Before losing his title to Moreno, he defended his title 6 times, including wins over Joseph Agbeko, Poonsawat Kratingdaenggym and Leo Gamez, and a couple of draws against Ricardo Cordoba. Very straightforward fighter, got some benefit of friendly judging in those fights, but probably the best European bantamweight in the last decade.

Rojas was always an opponent and started to come into his own around when he lost to Arce and Moreno, and has subsequently won a title and beaten some pretty good fighters. From my view, he was beating both Arce and Darchinyan before getting KOed, but one might say he has a glass liver (if such a thing exists).

Parra was just coming off a robbery draw to Arce when Moreno soundly beat him. His best days were long gone, but in the mid-2000s he had a good run as a flyweight titlist.

Monshipour was another guy mentioned who had a good run at 122 in the mid-2000's. He was on the losing end of the 2006 FOTY after running off about a half dozen title defenses.

Vic Darchinyan and David De La Mora I assume most people already know.

Of course, most of these fights were won by decision in his opponent's backyard
If Moreno beats Mares he should be ahead of Martinez

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
Coming into this thread i was thinking a Moreno win could get him in the lower top 10 p4p. After your much appreciated and informative breakdown which highlights some things i didn't know you could really argue his accomplishments are better than Sergio Martinez which are heavily inflated due to the hype Williams had.

Pavlik - Mares - edge Pavlik
Dzinziruk - Cermano - considering where they were in their careers close
Williams - Vic - close
Macklin - Sydorenko - huge edge sydorenko
Barker - Rojas
Monshipour
De La Mora
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:50 PM   #156
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montero View Post
That list is pretty damn legit. Gotta give RING some props here, especially on the vacant #1 spot. Some points:


- Ward definitely deserves #3 right now, however it could change after this weekend depending on what Martinez does.

- All of you guys bitching about Floyd and Many being the 1A and 1B of the rankings need to realize they have carried the sport for YEARS now. Regardless of Floyd's layoffs and Pac's recent controversial decisions, these are the two top guys in the sport and nobody out there has done more than them for the last decade or so. Get over it.

- I'm still not sure that Vitali is a p4p level type of guy. But then again guys like Broner, Gamboa, Guerrero, Garcia, etc haven't really done neough to be up there yet so I guess Vitali is on the list due to accomplishment.

- Marquez lovers bich and moan that he should be #2 or #3 or whatever. Here's the bottom line, he gave away those close fights to Pacquiao and hasn't concisively beat a good opponent since 2010. He's not a p4p top 5 fighter at this point in his career.

One of the few posters on here so far with a bit of common sense. The thread starter on here did raise the thread so you could all start bitch fighting about whether Manny Pacquiao lost to Bradley or Marquez, or wheather Mayweather did better against Cotto or who's ducking who. There is over 50 million other threads that debate that, because it reality for most of you it comes down to one thing- whether your a Mayweather nuthugger or a Pacquiao nuthugger. And your not gonna be swayed either way toward the others argument.

There are the potential for some good threads on here, which would raise intreasting debates, like this one but they always get ruined by nuthuggers.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:52 PM   #157
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
Breakdown of Moreno's career.



If Moreno beats Mares he should be ahead of Martinez
I don't get the equation. First Vic was past his prime when he faced Moreno. Williams was overrated a bit but the way that Sergio KOed him was emphatic. You have to include in Sergio important fights his KO against Cintron who later beat Angulo and was number 1 ranked fighter by ring at 154. If both Moreno and Sergio beat there opponents Sergio should still be ahead. All that said I'm not sure that Moreno is going to beat Mares. Another question I have is a about Moreno SDs in recent years. Where those fights actually close or was it more Moreno fighting in the other fighters backyards.

P.S. thanks for the response
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:19 PM   #158
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

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Originally Posted by PH|LLA View Post
which part
for one, why is Rigo there?
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:55 PM   #159
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montero View Post
That list is pretty damn legit. Gotta give RING some props here, especially on the vacant #1 spot. Some points:


- Ward definitely deserves #3 right now, however it could change after this weekend depending on what Martinez does.

- All of you guys bitching about Floyd and Many being the 1A and 1B of the rankings need to realize they have carried the sport for YEARS now. Regardless of Floyd's layoffs and Pac's recent controversial decisions, these are the two top guys in the sport and nobody out there has done more than them for the last decade or so. Get over it.

- I'm still not sure that Vitali is a p4p level type of guy. But then again guys like Broner, Gamboa, Guerrero, Garcia, etc haven't really done neough to be up there yet so I guess Vitali is on the list due to accomplishment.

- Marquez lovers bich and moan that he should be #2 or #3 or whatever. Here's the bottom line, he gave away those close fights to Pacquiao and hasn't concisively beat a good opponent since 2010. He's not a p4p top 5 fighter at this point in his career.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:27 PM   #160
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryx2012 View Post
nice...but the tie at #2 is ****ing stupid...they have Jmm ranked high based on the "controversial"decision against Manny...yet still have Manny ranked at the top after"a controversial"loss against Bradley...makes 0 sense
Perhaps, the people at The Ring feel that fighters records don't accurately reflect their true abilities. They may be ranking boxers based on level of competition and overall skill. People who want a purely records based ranking should try Boxrec's P4P instead.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:35 PM   #161
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

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Originally Posted by Ovid***ile View Post
Perhaps, the people at The Ring feel that fighters records don't accurately reflect their true abilities. They may be ranking boxers based on level of competition and overall skill. People who want a purely records based ranking should try Boxrec's P4P instead.
If that were true then Floyd would still be put at #1.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:47 PM   #162
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonit View Post
I don't get the equation. First Vic was past his prime when he faced Moreno. Williams was overrated a bit but the way that Sergio KOed him was emphatic. You have to include in Sergio important fights his KO against Cintron who later beat Angulo and was number 1 ranked fighter by ring at 154. If both Moreno and Sergio beat there opponents Sergio should still be ahead. All that said I'm not sure that Moreno is going to beat Mares. Another question I have is a about Moreno SDs in recent years. Where those fights actually close or was it more Moreno fighting in the other fighters backyards.

P.S. thanks for the response
Your Cintron comments are true. Regarding Vic he did a hell of alot more in his career than Williams ever did and while Vic may have been old and above his prime weight he had just fought a virtual draw against Mares. Williams was also above his prime weight, he never proved anything at 154 and was fighting at a MW 158lb catchweight.

Main point is that while alot won't even consider Moreno for top 10 his accomplishments being on par with Sergio is reasonable to debate. He's top 10 no doubt imo with a Mares win.

As for your original question i'm a Mares fan he really doesn't have too much. Perez draw, SD over Darchinyan, Agbeko II, Morel. I don't see how that is close to Moreno at this point.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:55 PM   #163
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

Rigondeaux, Gamboa, Golovkin, Cotto > Donaire, Moreno, Martinez, Bradley
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:04 AM   #164
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
Your Cintron comments are true. Regarding Vic he did a hell of alot more in his career than Williams ever did and while Vic may have been old and above his prime weight he had just fought a virtual draw against Mares. Williams was also above his prime weight, he never proved anything at 154 and was fighting at a MW 158lb catchweight.

Main point is that while alot won't even consider Moreno for top 10 his accomplishments being on par with Sergio is reasonable to debate. He's top 10 no doubt imo with a Mares win.

As for your original question i'm a Mares fan he really doesn't have too much. Perez draw, SD over Darchinyan, Agbeko II, Morel. I don't see how that is close to Moreno at this point.
I got your point. I think that the winner of Mares-Moreno deserves to be in the top 10 without any discussion. I've seen only Moreno-Vic fight and I really loved his style so I'm a fan of both Mares and Moreno. The match up is fascinating and I give kudos to both camps for accepting it!
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:05 AM   #165
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Default Re: THE RING P4P LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Congrats to Andre Ward & Anselmo Moreno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caestus View Post
Rigondeaux, Gamboa, Golovkin, Cotto > Donaire, Moreno, Martinez, Bradley
Rigo and Golovkin should be outside of p4p top 20 based on accomplishments.
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