MMA is in a Slump? Agree?

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by chimba

What is it with you? Pay sucks. Why do you argue this? No these Casino guys do not care about the sport (maybe they do when they were making money).
Dana proposed the UFC to the Fertittas during the dark ages as a buy cheap and profit later deal. The Fertittas dont even know what the fuck it is. They care enough about fighters, pay them more.

When has it been better? You're moaning that pay "sucks", well, the inference is that it used to be better. When was the time when it was more realistic to make a living out of professional MMA than it is now?

Who has ever done more for the sport than these casino guys? Honestly?

And which MMA people DO or DID care about the sport, and promoted events without regard for profiting themselves, and did everything just out of the goodness of their hearts?

For people who didn't know or care about the sport, they sure sank an assload of money into a failing company over an extended period of time before they saw anything back.

Can you name a company in MMA history that has taken better care of its fighters? That has made more fighters into millionaires? The UFC will pay their medical expenses for training and fighting injuries. Which other MMA company paid its fighters more or took better care of their health?

[RSBonos]

Originally Posted by boranbkk

The future is bright for Asian MMA, which can only be good for all MMA.

Asian MMA took a gigantic hit with Japan becoming a near non-entity, and even S.Korea which a few years was a growing market has gone down. The other countries are nowhere near to what Japan meant to MMA. Good luck to One FC, I hope they succeed, just calling it as I see it.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by RSBonos

Asian MMA took a gigantic hit with Japan becoming a near non-entity, and even S.Korea which a few years was a growing market has gone down. The other countries are nowhere near to what Japan meant to MMA. Good luck to One FC, I hope they succeed, just calling it as I see it.

Yeah it sucks that Asian MMA seems to have folded up and died basically as soon as PRIDE collapsed. When you look at the size of the events they put on, there was clearly an appetite for it. And the Japanese are a fighting culture. I don't understand why there's the lack of Asian fighters. Maybe Japan needs to find Danichi Watiro.

[Rob_Floyd]

I like the idea of One FC being the hub for all of Asian MMA.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Rob_Floyd

I like the idea of One FC being the hub for all of Asian MMA.

I like that a hell of a lot better than I like no Asian MMA.

And top-level fighters would no doubt move between the two orgs for a change of scene or marquee matchup.

[IntentionalButt]

The fad is over, you mean? Yes, I'd agree.

[Rob_Floyd]

Originally Posted by IntentionalButt

The fad is over, you mean? Yes, I'd agree.

I don't think you no longer enjoying it as much constitutes as a "fad ending"

I think it just means that you don't enjoy it as much anymore. I think.

[One Punch KO]

I'd agree it's in a slump.

The UFC needs to start creating stars, UFC 153 was recently bailed out by Anderson Silva, Stephan Bonnar and Big Nog - average age 36. Fans will keep saying the cards are weak and lacking star power if the old favourites retire and nobody has been built up to replace them.

[Camaris]

Want to sort it? Change the rules such that fighters want to stay on their feet and trade. It should be made clear that 'effective aggression' on your feet = judges look favourably vs rolling about on the deck looking for submission.

Groundwork is fine, nothing changes, but all things equal those looking to stand and fight should see the benefit on scorecards.

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by IntentionalButt

The fad is over, you mean? Yes, I'd agree.

MMA is/was never really a fad. The problem is the UFC is now ubiquitous in the West. Because of this it represents the face of MMA. So when the UFC has a slump the assumption is MMA is going through a slump. The reality is the UFC is experiencing over exposure, saturation and a lack of name brand stars. Ultimately though most of this is because of Dana. If competition had been allowed to nestle side by side with the UFC, instead of his megalomaniac approach fans would still be arguing the toss online over their fantasy matchups. And MMA as a whole (in the West) would continue to have main stream appeal as well as solid competition. Without those options there is no real choice (in the West) but the UFC.
Whilst OneFC is doing a fine job MMA has waned badly in Japan. Many promotions that made MMA today have closed their doors, PRIDE, HEROs and even the K-1 has experienced serious turmoil. I'm not entirely sure what the UFC can do with a guy like Dana at the helm as something obviously needs to change. But the grass roots of MMA in Asia will never go away. Likewise neither will MMA in the West. But it may go back to the fringe sport in the West unless the UFC changes its product significantly and stops trying to tear the ass out of the market and its paying fans.

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by One Punch KO

I'd agree it's in a slump.

The UFC needs to start creating stars, UFC 153 was recently bailed out by Anderson Silva, Stephan Bonnar and Big Nog - average age 36. Fans will keep saying the cards are weak and lacking star power if the old favourites retire and nobody has been built up to replace them.

The irony is those stars were grown in other promotions, plied their trade over the years and earned their stripes. The UFC rather than 'grow' stars as it used to with Chuck Tito and Randy now wants a SuperStar to just walk through its door and become the face of the brand. With the competitive nature of the roster guys will continue to emulate Greg Jackson () at every turn as many are effectively one fight away from loosing their spot. The UFC have simply made it too tough a business for fighters. The demands are almost akin to the WWE. Either suck it up or leave for the bush leagues.

[boranbkk]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

MMA is/was never really a fad. The problem is the UFC is now ubiquitous in the West. Because of this it represents the face of MMA. So when the UFC has a slump the assumption is MMA is going through a slump. The realityios the UFC is experiencing over exposure, saturation and a lack of name brand stars. Ultimately though most of this is because of Dana. If competition had been allowed to nestle side by side with the UFC, instead of his megalomaniac approach fans would still be arguing the toss online over their fantasy matchups. And MMA as a whole (in the West) would continue to have main stream appeal as well as solid competition. Without those options there is no real choice (in the West) but the UFC.
Whilst OneFC is doing a fine job MMA has waned badly in Japan. Many promotions that made MMA today have closed their doors, PRIDE, HEROs and even the K-1 has experienced serious turmoil. I'm not entirely sure what the UFC can do with a guy like Dana at the helm as something obviously needs to change. But the grass roots of MMA in Asia will never go away. Likewise neither with MMA in the West. But it may go back to the fringe sport in the West unless the UFC changes its product significantly and stops trying to tear the ass out of the market and its paying fans.

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

The irony is those stars were grown in other promotions, plied their trade over the years and earned their stripes. The UFC rather than 'grow' stars as it used to with Chuck Tito and Randy now wants a SuperStar to just walk through its door and become the face of the brand. With the competitive nature of the roster guys will continue to emulate Greg Jackson () at every turn as many are effectively one fight away from loosing their spot. The UFC have simply made it too tough a business for fighters. The demands are almost akin to the WWE. Either suck it up or leave for the bush leagues.

Good couple of posts.

[thejokerswild]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

MMA is/was never really a fad. The problem is the UFC is now ubiquitous in the West. Because of this it represents the face of MMA. So when the UFC has a slump the assumption is MMA is going through a slump. The reality is the UFC is experiencing over exposure, saturation and a lack of name brand stars. Ultimately though most of this is because of Dana. If competition had been allowed to nestle side by side with the UFC, instead of his megalomaniac approach fans would still be arguing the toss online over their fantasy matchups. And MMA as a whole (in the West) would continue to have main stream appeal as well as solid competition. Without those options there is no real choice (in the West) but the UFC.
Whilst OneFC is doing a fine job MMA has waned badly in Japan. Many promotions that made MMA today have closed their doors, PRIDE, HEROs and even the K-1 has experienced serious turmoil. I'm not entirely sure what the UFC can do with a guy like Dana at the helm as something obviously needs to change. But the grass roots of MMA in Asia will never go away. Likewise neither will MMA in the West. But it may go back to the fringe sport in the West unless the UFC changes its product significantly and stops trying to tear the ass out of the market and its paying fans.

This is a really good post. great insight

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

The irony is those stars were grown in other promotions, plied their trade over the years and earned their stripes. The UFC rather than 'grow' stars as it used to with Chuck Tito and Randy now wants a SuperStar to just walk through its door and become the face of the brand.

Like, say, a young guy who appears out of nowhere and within 2 years wipes out a competitive division and signs a monster international endorsement deal with the biggest sports-marketing company on the planet?

Guys like Jones and GSP are objectively much bigger deals than Chuck, Randy and Tito ever were in their day. They earn more money and get more mainstream attention. Jones-Evans sold slightly fewer PPVs than the entire Liddell-Couture trilogy.

And as for your love affair with "stars who were grown in other promotions", there is one dividing point after which UFC PPVs suddenly took off. TUF1.

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

With the competitive nature of the roster guys will continue to emulate Greg Jackson () at every turn

You mean guys like Jones, Cerrone, Carwin, Condit, Garcia, Sanchez etc?

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

as many are effectively one fight away from loosing their spot.

Yes, Dana White is well known for loving fighters who lay and pray their way to boring decisions. That's why Jon Fitch gets title shot after title shot. There's no advantage to being known as an aggressive fighter whose fights are entertaining win or lose, because the UFC doesn't actively encourage fighters to make their fights as exciting as they can.

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

The UFC have simply made it too tough a business for fighters.

Oh yeah, it's rough all right. If only the fighters could go back to the good old days, when MMA events in America were getting shut down by the cops and if you wanted to be a mid-card professional MMA fighter, you had to go to Japan and keep enough cash out of your losing-against-a-Japanese-guy bonus to pay for your own taxi to the hospital.

[Stoo]