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Old 01-29-2008, 01:52 AM   #61
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

Very tough fantasy fight to call: I keep seeing Tyson coming into Louis and welcomed by those accurate, deadly shots.

Of course, Tyson would not come in chin-first like Frazier, but behind the jab and probably look to hurt Louis to the body in order to open him up to a devastating attack upstairs, similar to the barrage that halted Michael Spinks.

This is a head-on clash, as neither is a fancy Dan of ring movement; once the bombs start exploding, and it will happen fast, it is a matter of who gets to who first.

There is no doubting Louis does not possess the greatest durability as regards chin and body plating and this is the reason I believe Tyson finally crushes him early. Just too much power, speed, versatility and elusiveness for the hallowed Bomber.
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Old 01-29-2008, 06:18 AM   #62
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

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Originally Posted by BUDW
Joe would have Tysons face so tatooed he wouldnt need to get that dumb looking one he has, Joe drops street thug for the count.
You lost credibility with your earlier post in this thread. You're either biased one way or another or you just don't know what you're talking about.
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Old 01-29-2008, 06:37 AM   #63
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

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Originally Posted by quest
I think Tyson takes him out within the first half of the fight
I think Tyson takes him out in the first round.

I can't believe people actually believe Louis has even a remote chance of making it to round 2.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:13 PM   #64
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

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Originally Posted by Amsterdam
I think Tyson takes him out in the first round.

I can't believe people actually believe Louis has even a remote chance of making it to round 2.
I have to provide the voice of reality here.

You dont actualy have to be verry good to get out of the first round against Mike Tyson at his peak or anybody else for that matter. Just look at some of the guys who took him the distance.

Tyson would have a verry good chance of stoping Johny Paycheck in one round but it would not be an earth shattering event if it took two or more.
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:09 PM   #65
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

Mike Tyson would be able to take Louis' shots better than Joe could take his that would be one key advantage for Tyson in this bout. Also I feel Tyson at his peak was harder to hit with a clean shot than Louis. Many fighters who fought Tyson at his peak commented on how hard it was to hit him with a clean shot. Thus i give Tyson the advantage in defense as well. The fights in which a prime Tyson was frustrated was by fighters who fought in a totally different style than Louis. Joe would engage with Tyson thats not somethign that would frustrate Tyson. I would favour Tyson to emerge when they go exchange due to his superior chin, defense and size.
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:35 PM   #66
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

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Originally Posted by Shareef
Mike Tyson would be able to take Louis' shots better than Joe could take his
This is not necisarily the case by any means.

I think Tyson had a better chin but I dont think that is the whole story.
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Old 01-29-2008, 06:44 PM   #67
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

I would pick Tyson by mid to late stoppage. A prime Tyson would stop many ATG's not disrespect to Joe but his chin was a little suspect and I think Tyson would be all over him from the start, not allowing him to get in a groove. Tyson and Ali are the only people I would put money on to beat Louis.
Tyson has every physical advantage here.
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Old 01-29-2008, 06:49 PM   #68
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
You lost credibility with your earlier post in this thread. You're either biased one way or another or you just don't know what you're talking about.
LOL and you do? what does it take to be credible agree with you? Tyson's resume does not compare to Joe Louis resume,Joe had heart Tyson doesnt,I stand by Joe Louis by a KO,much easier than most would expect.
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:00 PM   #69
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

I'm not trying to sound like a one sided prick here, but I simply can't help but think that Tyson would **** up Louis and pretty badly at that.

Tyson detractors will say that he lost to a very mediocre Buster Douglas, but what most of them won't say, is that he was a 23 year old kid who had been training with a very incompetent staff for the previous 18 months since Rooney had been canned. Angelo Dundee and Gil Clancy said in an interview that the corner work in that fight was some of worst they ever saw, with the staff pressing on his swelling with a disolved bag of water. Tyson was also showing telltale signs of deterioraton by being floored in sparring with Greg Page, and going out regularly with women on the town. In fact, one of the reasons why Rooney was fired, was because he publicly said that Tyosn should not be seeing girls during training, of course this probably the excuse that Don King needed to convince Tyson to rid him of the old staff so that he could bring in his own crue of crownies. If anyone saw the Douglas fight, they would notice that he was rarely making any attempt to close the gap and was failing to take advantage of easy opportunities to nail Douglas when he was close or open,i.e, he did not show up to fight. He aslo kept his head bowed between rounds, something that he rarely did in the past. We also have to consider that Douglas was a 6'4" 225 Lb, black heavyweight with reasonable boxing ability and wins over some very good rated fighters. Combine this with Tyson's current state of mind, and we can conclude that it was a rather nasty ****tail for a defeat.

That having been said, we have to look at Louis's resume. Yes he had 25 title defenses over 11.5 years, and is commonly rated as the best technical puncher of all time. But, he also fought in a different era, where most contenders were typically smaller, slower, less established, and also white. In 25 title defenses, Louis fought only two black men, which were John Henry Lewis, who was a lightheavyweight previously beaten by James Braddock, and a 34 year old Joe Walcott, who more or less led the career of a journeyman, and managed to floor Louis multiple times enroute to one of the most desputed decisions of all time. Louis was also Ko'd at the age of 23 and with a perfect record of 27-0, by a 190 Lb Max Scmeling. That's to say nothing of being floored and given a black eye by one of the most horribly trained contenders in history in Tony Galento. He was also knocked over the ropes and out of the ring by Buddy Baer, who I would place on parr with someone like Gerry Cooney. Louis also was nearly outboxed by a former middleweight in Billy Conn.

We can sit here and try to sugar coat things with stuff like styles, era differences, and politics to justify the differences in Tyson and Louis's careers, but at the end of the day, I am convinced, that a young motivated Tyson with the right surroundings would have gotten Louis in trouble early, and when he did, would have finished him.

Last edited by mr. magoo; 01-29-2008 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:44 PM   #70
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
I have to provide the voice of reality here.

You dont actualy have to be verry good to get out of the first round against Mike Tyson at his peak or anybody else for that matter. Just look at some of the guys who took him the distance.
You didn't have to be very good to get out of the early rounds or to even floor Louis either. Tony Galento was one of the worst conditioned contenders of all time and he managed to do both. Max Shcmeling although a great fighter, was only 190Lbs and not exactly a top all time great, yet he managed to thoroughly beat the livin' crap out of a prime Louis. Buddy Baer was a big boy with a great punch, but his skill was limited, as was his comp list, and he knocked Lous over the ropes. None of these men were the calibur of a Tyson. You could say the same about Louis not being Buster Douglas, but the difference between Louis and Douglas is not nearly as vast as the difference between Tyson versus Schmeling, Baer, or Galento. Plus, Tyson's career was on a downside due to a change in managment and conflicting influences outside the ring. What's Louis's excuse?

Last edited by JETSKI; 01-18-2007 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:00 PM   #71
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

I've spent many hours debating this one with others as well as myself and still have a hard time picking the winner though I tend to lean toward Tyson. I just can't help remembering how Galento decked and hurt Joe in thier fight or how a 169lb Conn had Louis hanging on for dear life at one point in thier classic battle. If both of these men could hurt Joe, one shudders to think what a prime 215lb fast murderous punching Tyson would do to Joe. Galento had no movement at all, he just stood right in front of Joe with no defense and his hands wide open looking to land a hook and he lasted longer than he should have and put some hurt on Joe at the same time. Tyson with his head movement, hands up by his chin and very fast hands would be a far more formidable opponent than the street brawling Galento who threw one punch at a time and had very little if any skill or technique. Somebody mentioned in this post that Louis mostly feasted on slower white opponents and only faced two black opponents during his long title reign. This is a point that can't be ignored. For these reasons I tend to lean toward Mike in this matchup but to be honest I would'nt bet my life savings on it. I just feel that Mike has the weapons and the speed of attack to scramble Joe's gameplan and stop him within 4-5 rounds. If the fight goes longer than Joe's chances improve dramatically but I'm not sure that would happen.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:19 PM   #72
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

I really don't think that Louis is built to beat Tyson. Especially since Joe was not really a quick starter. If Joe could get going, he might have a chance, but I don't think Louis would make it out of the first two rounds.
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:24 PM   #73
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

I would go with Tyson. He was unreal from 86' to 89.'
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Old 02-29-2008, 04:40 AM   #74
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhhorn71
Holyfield pounded on Tyson, and Holy doesn't punch like Louis.

Galento and several others floored Louis. Conn wobbled him.

Before 6 rds Tyson. After six , I take Louis.
The Tyson Holyfield pounded on wasn't even close to his prime.
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Old 02-29-2008, 04:45 AM   #75
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

I would pick Tyson by mid round ko. He was bigger stronger and faster than Louis. In most sports including boxing that combonation usualy wins. I can see Louis catching Tyson coming in but because of Tyson's head movement I think this is highly unlikly.
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