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Old 01-27-2008, 05:51 AM   #1
godking
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Default Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

Since there is some discussion about Tysons performance against Tillis

Here is a question for name the other 19 year ATG HWS who you think would have KO'd Tillis at 19 years old.

Remember 19 years old you have to pick them at the level of fighters they where fighting at 19 years old.\

So name them
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Old 01-27-2008, 05:53 AM   #2
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

Not many.

Sam McVea could probably have done it.
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Old 01-27-2008, 06:02 AM   #3
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

What's the point of this thread? Supposedly a 19 year old Tyson would KO every HW who ever lived (according to nuthuggers)... but not Tillis.
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Old 01-27-2008, 06:24 AM   #4
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

Defensive much?

It went to points, deal with it. These things happen.
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:28 AM   #5
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

Quote:
Originally Posted by godking
Since there is some discussion about Tysons performance against Tillis

Here is a question for name the other 19 year ATG HWS who you think would have KO'd Tillis at 19 years old.

Remember 19 years old you have to pick them at the level of fighters they where fighting at 19 years old.\

So name them

How about asking 'Which 23 year old ATG would be KO'd by Buster Douglas?'
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:29 AM   #6
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

Quote:
Originally Posted by DamonD
Defensive much?

It went to points, deal with it. These things happen.
I have no qualms that it went to a points decision its those guys who see it as something negative that a 19 year old Tyson won a points victory over a caggy vet in 28 year old Tillis that i made this thread for.

Last edited by Dr Z; 01-14-2007 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellfire_508
What's the point of this thread? Supposedly a 19 year old Tyson would KO every HW who ever lived (according to nuthuggers)... but not Tillis.
Some guys see it as something negative that a 19 year old Tyson could not KO a 28 year old Tillis fighting at his best.

Its for them that i made this thread .

The fact that none of them have provided an ATG HW who would have done better at 19 is very telling.
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:39 AM   #8
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

Quote:
Originally Posted by crippet
How about asking 'Which 23 year old ATG would be KO'd by Buster Douglas?'
Well a 22 year old Louis was beaten by Max Schmelling. a 22 year old dempsey was ko'd in one round By Jim Flynn and lost on point to willie meehan .

Now answer my question name the ATG hw who at 19 years old would have stopped Tillis.

trying to change the topic does not get you of the hook.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:28 AM   #9
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

Quote:
Originally Posted by godking
Well a 22 year old Louis was beaten by Max Schmelling. a 22 year old dempsey was ko'd in one round By Jim Flynn and lost on point to willie meehan .

Now answer my question name the ATG hw who at 19 years old would have stopped Tillis.

trying to change the topic does not get you of the hook.
There have never been any 19 Year old ATGs.

But plenty of ATGs as well as journeymen would and have stopped Tillis.

Which makes it all the more bizarre when some posters claim a 1986 Tyson would walk through Ali, Lewis, Louis etc etc etc, but the facts show this Tyson couldn't even walk through Tillis!
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:37 AM   #10
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

Quote:
a 22 year old dempsey was ko'd in one round By Jim Flynn
Sure, but I think the question was limited to legitimate contests.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:26 AM   #11
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

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Originally Posted by UpWithEvil
Sure, but I think the question was limited to legitimate contests.
Tyson - Tillis was as legit as they come

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Old 01-27-2008, 11:15 AM   #12
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

Quote:
Originally Posted by crippet
There have never been any 19 Year old ATGs.

But plenty of ATGs as well as journeymen would and have stopped Tillis.

Which makes it all the more bizarre when some posters claim a 1986 Tyson would walk through Ali, Lewis, Louis etc etc etc, but the facts show this Tyson couldn't even walk through Tillis!
What other ATG hws when they where 19 would have walked through Tillis ?
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Old 01-27-2008, 12:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

Quote:
Originally Posted by godking
What other ATG hws when they where 19 would have walked through Tillis ?
No I dont see it as a major mark against Tyson that he failled to stop Tills at this stage of his career.

You can make any champion look bad by cherry picking an ocasion when they weren taken the distance by a lesser fighter.
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Old 01-27-2008, 05:00 PM   #14
Marciano Frazier
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

I don't think many champions would have been able to stop Tillis at 19. Patterson might have done it. All of the other champions peaked well into their 20s or in their 30s, though- Tyson had his peak at 20-22 years old. Some hardcore Tyson fans claim that a peak Tyson would easily tear through all or most of the other all-time greats as though they were made of tissue paper or somesuch; as such, they apparently think that a 19-and-11-months Tyson was just an inexperienced young padawan and no one can criticize him for his performance at that stage, but that six months later he was the most unstoppable force ever seen by mankind. And then when he was 23 and getting the bejesus beaten out of him by Buster Douglas, he was shot.

Note that this isn't unique to Tyson- hardcore fans of most any fighter will sort of carefully cut and paste their man's career so as to ignore the less impressive parts. I've been guilty of this myself from time to time. For example, hardcore Ali fans will say that the Ali of 1964-1967 was the untouchable embodiment perfection and no one in history could ever have beaten him. When someone subsequently points out that in 1963, less than a year before supposedly being invincible against Liston, Ali struggled to narrowly outpoint Doug Jones and then was knocked down and hurt by Henry Cooper, both of whom were ordinary contenders, the Ali fanatic will say "Yeah, but that's 1963. It doesn't mean anything if it's before 1964."

Now, it may be that Tyson and Ali each did, in fact, improve during those few months of their respective careers, but they didn't go from being flawed human beings who were vulnerable to struggling and looking beatable against run-of-the-mill opponents into being superhuman demigods in that time.
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: Name the other 19 year old ATG HWS who would have KO'd Tillis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier
I don't think many champions would have been able to stop Tillis at 19. Patterson might have done it. All of the other champions peaked well into their 20s or in their 30s, though- Tyson had his peak at 20-22 years old. Some hardcore Tyson fans claim that a peak Tyson would easily tear through all or most of the other all-time greats as though they were made of tissue paper or somesuch; as such, they apparently think that a 19-and-11-months Tyson was just an inexperienced young padawan and no one can criticize him for his performance at that stage, but that six months later he was the most unstoppable force ever seen by mankind. And then when he was 23 and getting the bejesus beaten out of him by Buster Douglas, he was shot.

Note that this isn't unique to Tyson- hardcore fans of most any fighter will sort of carefully cut and paste their man's career so as to ignore the less impressive parts. I've been guilty of this myself from time to time. For example, hardcore Ali fans will say that the Ali of 1964-1967 was the untouchable embodiment perfection and no one in history could ever have beaten him. When someone subsequently points out that in 1963, less than a year before supposedly being invincible against Liston, Ali struggled to narrowly outpoint Doug Jones and then was knocked down and hurt by Henry Cooper, both of whom were ordinary contenders, the Ali fanatic will say "Yeah, but that's 1963. It doesn't mean anything if it's before 1964."

Now, it may be that Tyson and Ali each did, in fact, improve during those few months of their respective careers, but they didn't go from being flawed human beings who were vulnerable to struggling and looking beatable against run-of-the-mill opponents into being superhuman demigods in that time.


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