Rocky Marciano

[SuzieQ49]

old Lee Savold (still top ranked at that time),

Savold was unrated, this is one fight in which I critisize Marciano for taking. He should have fought Clarence Henry instead. Savold had been ruined by Joe Louis 6 months earlier.

[RockyJim]

My favorite fighter of all time...had no business being champ...short...stocky...short arms...started fighting late...awkward...but you can't judge Marciano by what you can see.
Best conditioned fighter ever...great heart...chin...power...stamina...high work rate...feared no man...hurt you no matter where he hit you...carried his power into the late rounds...had the ability to come up with the big punch when he had to...(Walcott 1 and second Charles fight)...49-0 43-ko's...put him in the ring with anyone...

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Andrei00

I'm pretty sure if he didn't fight either one of those guys you'd crucify him for it.

Those are all championship bouts we're talking about here. So yeah, I believe it's pretty impressive to defend your title 4 times against 3 different ATGs.

However, wins over old Joe Louis (still top ranked at that time), old Lee Savold (still top ranked at that time), young Rex Layne (top ranked), title eliminator bout against Harry Matthews (undefeated for almost 10 years), combined with his championship bouts I've already talked about, make a pretty good record. Not a perfect one, but it certainly don't stink.

37 years old Savold had not been ranked since the end of 1950/ beginning 51.He was coming off a stoppage loss to Louis when he fought Marciano.

[SuzieQ49]

already covered it

[Andrei00]

Originally Posted by mcvey

37 years old Savold had not been ranked since the end of 1950/ beginning 51.He was coming off a stoppage loss to Louis when he fought Marciano.

He was rated #2 by The Ring in february 1951, and unrated in february 1952. Now there's a pretty big gap, but he only fought Louis, ranked 1st, and Rocky, ranked 10th. So I can't tell for sure, but I don't think his loss against Louis (who was again ranked #1) was enough to fall out of the top10 before Marciano.

[lufcrazy]

What do you make of his chances against modern super-heavyweights?

[FastHands(beeb)]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

What do you make of his chances against modern super-heavyweights?

Luf...surely that's a loaded question? That's like asking how would Jesse Owens do against Usain Bolt?

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by FastHands(beeb)

Luf...surely that's a loaded question? That's like asking how would Jesse Owens do against Usain Bolt?

With respect, it's a different comparison because we know how fast these two men can run.

We don't know how Rocky would do against shw greats. There are sound arguments in his favour that I don't subscribe to, but i'd like to know if those close to Rocky did.

[FastHands(beeb)]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

With respect, it's a different comparison because we know how fast these two men can run.

We don't know how Rocky would do against shw greats. There are sound arguments in his favour that I don't subscribe to, but i'd like to know if those close to Rocky did.

Luf, yes we do know how fast these 2 can run, and we know Bolt runs faster, possibly due to what could be called sporting evolution. But that doesn't necessarily make him greater, which is my whole point. I suspect, very strongly that h2h Lennox Lewis would beat Marciano because of sporting evolution; but does thatin itself make LL greater than RM? I don't believe so. Perhaps a better example to use is Riddick Bowe, I think a very good case could be made that Bowe would beat Marciano due to what I describe as sporting evolution; but is Bowe greater than Marciano? Almost certainly not.

I hope the above is clear and you know what I am going on about? Sorry if the above doesn't make sense...

I also apologise if I mistakenly thought you were being disingenous with your original question!!!

[choklab]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

What do you make of his chances against modern super-heavyweights?

a "super heavyweight" is one of two things.
he’s either
1. a natural giant.
2. an enhanced body builder.

neither one is a genuine 3 minuets a round, fifteen round fighter.

IMO If you unleashed all the classic 200lb heavyweights onto today’s "super heavyweights" the giants would get beat up and the enhanced BODY BUILDERS would have to take off 30lb just to compete.

There always was giants but back in the day with smaller gloves the 200 pounders used to crucify them because they were faster, hit as hard and set a better pace.
My answer to that question is Rocky would have a picnic.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by FastHands(beeb)

Luf, yes we do know how fast these 2 can run, and we know Bolt runs faster, possibly due to what could be called sporting evolution. But that doesn't necessarily make him greater, which is my whole point. I suspect, very strongly that h2h Lennox Lewis would beat Marciano because of sporting evolution; but does thatin itself make LL greater than RM? I don't believe so. Perhaps a better example to use is Riddick Bowe, I think a very good case could be made that Bowe would beat Marciano due to what I describe as sporting evolution; but is Bowe greater than Marciano? Almost certainly not.

I hope the above is clear and you know what I am going on about? Sorry if the above doesn't make sense...

I also apologise if I mistakenly thought you were being disingenous with your original question!!!

I'm not asking who's greater though... I'm just asking if those close to Rocky felt he could be the giants who succeeded him

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by choklab

a "super heavyweight" is one of two things.
hes either
1. a natural giant.
2. an enhanced body builder.

neither one is a genuine 3 minuets a round, fifteen round fighter.

IMO If you unleashed all the classic 200lb heavyweights onto todays "super heavyweights" the giants would get beat up and the enhanced BODY BUILDERS would have to take off 30lb just to compete.

There always was giants but back in the day with smaller gloves the 200 pounders used to crucify them because they were faster, hit as hard and set a better pace.
My answer to that question is Rocky would have a picnic.

I class a shw as anyone as big as foreman.

I think boxing wise the last great leap was in the 20's but evolution wise people have grown bigger. Those skilled at the top level have grown bigger.

Call it oversimplying but I personally believe a good big un beats a good little un. I wouldn't expect a ww to beat a mw unless he had a huge advantage in skill. Rocky might beat vitali because his inside game is non-existant but I can't see him prevailing against lewis, wlad, bowe or foreman who as all great's in their own right whilst enjoying a huge size advantage.

[Andrei00]

Originally Posted by choklab

a "super heavyweight" is one of two things.
he’s either
1. a natural giant.
2. an enhanced body builder.

neither one is a genuine 3 minuets a round, fifteen round fighter.

IMO If you unleashed all the classic 200lb heavyweights onto today’s "super heavyweights" the giants would get beat up and the enhanced BODY BUILDERS would have to take off 30lb just to compete.

There always was giants but back in the day with smaller gloves the 200 pounders used to crucify them because they were faster, hit as hard and set a better pace.
My answer to that question is Rocky would have a picnic.

Great post.

That's a fact most people refuse to take into consideration.

[FastHands(beeb)]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

I'm not asking who's greater though... I'm just asking if those close to Rocky felt he could be the giants who succeeded him

Fair enough

It's just that you get some threads involving The Rock (& Dempsey!!!) where the scarcely hidden agenda of the OP is to covertly try to discredit both of them!

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by FastHands(beeb)

Fair enough

It's just that you get some threads involving The Rock (& Dempsey!!!) where the scarcely hidden agenda of the OP is to covertly try to discredit both of them!

Any bias I had died with Valero i'm afraid. Since then i've been more a fan of the sport than the individuals.