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Old 09-22-2012, 01:46 AM   #31
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post

If Smoke can get at Holmes consistently, he has a great shot to win. But I give Larry the edge because he could, in fact, hurt at deter Joe at a distance. Joe would struggle more boxing with Larry than he did with Ali and other boxers, because Larry was a PUNISHING opponent to face at range. Not just difficult, punishing.
Holmes hit harder than Ali but it was marginal. He didnt have the type of power to deter Joe Frazier from getting inside. Yes he could stun Joe but Frazier is going to establish that forward momentum more often than not. Holmes is going to be giving ground and taking punishment on the inside by the mid rounds.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:22 AM   #32
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Holmes wins. Frazier wasn't a good boxer. He was behind a over weight Mathis, and was down early to Ellis. Holmes would not wilt the way those two did.
Behind to Mathis is a myth ... he controlled the pace of the fight after the third round .. as ar as down early to Ellis , come on ... a razor close first two rounds and then he destroyed Jimmy ... I am a huge Homes fan but see this a a very tough match up for Larry ..
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:50 AM   #33
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by ETM View Post
Holmes hit harder than Ali but it was marginal. He didnt have the type of power to deter Joe Frazier from getting inside. Yes he could stun Joe but Frazier is going to establish that forward momentum more often than not. Holmes is going to be giving ground and taking punishment on the inside by the mid rounds.
Agree with this, assuming we are talking primes for both men.

Frazier does get inside and breaks Larry down by attrition.

In a battle of primes, I like Frazier on a late tko.
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:41 AM   #34
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

Prime for prime Frazier stops that ass in 13 and that's all that matters!
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Old 09-22-2012, 08:34 PM   #35
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Frazier would struggle with Holmes, and Joe agreed with that sentiment.

I've always asked him what fight with another great heavyweight in history he would have been most loathe to take, and he always answered me, in private, with Larry Holmes, because that jab would 'hurt'.

To me, that is in fact the key. Ali beat Joe up and busted him up, but had a hard time keeping his respect with solid power connects, which is why Joe gave him so much trouble.

Holmes was more stationary, on one hand, but on the other, had more sting in all his punches. In round 8, I believe, of Ali vs. Frazier II, Ali lands a TRIPLE jab. 1,2,3 jabs, fully extended, flush, as Ali is retreating to the ropes. Joe's head snaps back, and he keeps coming. If those 3 jabs were from Holmes, Joe wouldn't have walked through them.

If Smoke can get at Holmes consistently, he has a great shot to win. But I give Larry the edge because he could, in fact, hurt at deter Joe at a distance. Joe would struggle more boxing with Larry than he did with Ali and other boxers, because Larry was a PUNISHING opponent to face at range. Not just difficult, punishing.
What's interesting is you're right. Larry has more of a pop and a bit more maybe to deter Frazier. However, can Larry take it once Frazier gets at the optimal range? Does he have the toughness, grit, and willpower of Ali?

If it's a prime versus prime fight I'd pick Frazier because I think Frazier has more of the needed toughness. He may get hurt, even staggered a little bit (Although the punch that seemed to hurt Frazier the most in his prime was an unorthodox double left hook/uppercut from Ali in round 9 of the FOTC). Larry doesn't exactly throw like that. He has a great uppercut, but he throws it on the inside. Ali basically threw a double left hookercut at range against the greatest left hooker in HW history. Unorthodox and *****y. So they present difficult threats and challenges.

I'd say peak versus peak I'd take Frazier to edge a decision. I'm 60/40 in terms of the odds.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:21 AM   #36
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

Another punch that holmes didn't have is a lead right hand, that ali used to great effect in his fights with frazier. Joe was the perfect fighting machine to fight boxers. Holmes might have had more sting in his jab but alis had more variation and could change its direction up and down, holmes was a straight jab, alis would have been more effective against frazier. I'd have to go with a late stoppage or points decision for frazier
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:26 AM   #37
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

Prime for prime I'd have to go with a Joe Frazier UD. A battered, way down on workrate Holmes battles bravely at the end, but lost it down the stretch in the last third. Frazier is never the same again after this match, fighting down to his depleting reserves and then fighting some more.

Watch Joe push in against that legendary, punishing jab, and watch a truly possessed man.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:26 AM   #38
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

Holmes wins. He can do what Ali did in 1971, but does better on the inside. While Holmes never moved as much Ali, he could get on his toes and move when need be.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:54 AM   #39
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
I'd say peak versus peak I'd take Frazier to edge a decision. I'm 60/40 in terms of the odds.
Same feelings here, 3-2 or 4-3 odds for Frazier.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:22 PM   #40
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by Robbi View Post
Holmes wins. He can do what Ali did in 1971, but does better on the inside. While Holmes never moved as much Ali, he could get on his toes and move when need be.
On the inside larry would have to use the uppercut leaving himself vulnerable to the left hook, I know larry recovered from that thunderous punch from shavers, but if earnie was a good finisher larry would have been out. Could larry weather the storm that joe could bring?
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:59 PM   #41
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by Wass1985 View Post
On the inside larry would have to use the uppercut leaving himself vulnerable to the left hook, I know larry recovered from that thunderous punch from shavers, but if earnie was a good finisher larry would have been out. Could larry weather the storm that joe could bring?
On the otherhand, Joe doesn't punch anywhere near as hard as Earnie. He'd need accumulation.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:24 PM   #42
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

He's got heeeaaaaarrtttttttt all you really need is heeeeeaaaaarrrrtttt when the odds are saying you'll never win, thats when the grin should starrt!
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:31 PM   #43
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

The Frazier of the FOTC in 1971 beats Holmes...
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:42 PM   #44
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

Prime for prime, I favor Holmes, but only very, very slightly. I think it's very close to a 50-50 fight. Holmes does have the additional sting on his punches over Ali that would make it more difficult for Joe to shrug off, and he doesn't leave himself as open to counter left hooks as Ali does with the uppercut, for example.

On the other hand, Joe on his best nights was a tank in the ring, and if he could consistently get inside he could really start working Holmes over and accumulating damage, especially to the body, which might swing a fight towards Joe's way down the stretch.

That's prime for prime, though. Towards the end of Joe's career, especially after Manilla, he would have been picked apart by even a green Larry Holmes.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:39 PM   #45
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
prime for prime, frazier.
Hahahahahaaahahahahaha
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