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Old 05-28-2008, 06:35 AM   #1
Mendoza
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Default Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

Joseph Bartlett Choynski (coy-en-ski) was one of the outstanding heavyweights at the turn of the 20th century, despite fighting at around 170 pounds. Choynski fought draws with Jim Jeffries, who outweighed him by 50 pounds, and Bob Fitzsimmmons. His greatest victory came in 1901 when he knocked out future heavyweight champ Jack Johnson in three rounds.


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] After the fight the two were arrested for staging an illegal bout. While in jail, Choynski tutored Johnson in many of the tricks of the trade that he had learned. Ironically it was Choynski who helped train Jim Jeffries for his comeback fight against Johnson. In retirement, Choynski toured with Peter Jackson in a production of "Uncle Tom's Cabin" and consulted on the production of the Jim Corbett biopic "Gentleman Jim."
Choynski's father was a writer, and his mother a musician.
The Days of Finish Fights
By Joe Choynski

BIG crowds watched me through my training stunts. My bag punching created excitement. The Australians had used only heavy bags. They were, fascinated by the speed and skill I showed with the light bag and in a short time were practicing on their own punching bags Imported from the U.S. The night of the fight came around and I was stripping .in my dressing room when in. walked the "Jawbreaker." "I propose that we save a score," said Fogarty. "I don't get you," says I. Then Fogarty explained that "saving a score" was the Australian way of proposing a loser's end of twenty pounds instead of fighting winner take all, as the articles of agreement stipulated.

I agreed that the loser should have something. The fight with Fogarty went the scheduled ten rounds. I jabbed him almost out and did not receive a scratch in return. The newspapers hailed this victory as a remarkable performance and the Australians were so impressed with my work they sent for Joe Goddard, known as the "Barrier Champion' to come from Melbourne to fight me.

This Goddard was one of the greatest natural fighters I ever saw. Unlike the other Australians he was not clever, but he was fast and prodigiously strong, with a head like a lion. He was almost a glutton for punishment, almost impervious to knockout punches. He was then rated as one of the great heavyweights of the World, on a par with Peter Jackson, Frank Slavin and even John L. Sullivan. In fact I believe that Goddard would have beaten Sullivan then, considering the condition of John L.

This match with Goddard was quickly made and I realized it was my most ambitious. undertaking so far Goddard outweighed me by fifty pounds. I finished my training in the hottest weather I ever experienced. The newspapers said the temperature went up at times to 120, and I believe it. It certainly gets hot in Australia in the summer time.

The first round opened at a terrific pace. Before the fight had gone one minute I knocked Goddard down with a blow that split the massive chin. The Australian rings are twenty four feet each way and the referee stands outside the ropes. When Goddard went down, the referee was on the opposite side and he ran all the way around the ring before he began counting. The "Barrier Champion" was on the floor at least six seconds before the count began, and he took the full ten.

Then Goddard began a series of rushes such as I never experienced. Each time he rushed I ducked and his hurtling body would ram with great force against my shoulder or elbow. The referee ordered me not to do this, asserting that it was foul for my shoulder or elbow to collide with Goddard's body. This was a .new ruling for me and there was nothing left for me to do but trade wallops with a far heavier man and one of the most dangerous hitters in the world.

The fight became a slaughter. First Goddard would be knocked down and then It would be my turn. Talk about thrills. The crowd was standing from the first exchange. The Sydney referee described the battle as "the most terrible ever seen in. Australia." In the fourth round I was knocked out. In my scrap book is a remarkable description of the combat which I wish space permitted to reproduce in full, both for the details it gives of: a memorable battle and to show, the vivid handling of boxing events by Australian, sports writers. I will content myself with the referee's description of the third round of this battle with Goddard.

"Round 3óLike two whirlwinds the men went at each other and smash, smash with sickening force fell the hailstorm of blows. 'Keep away, Choynski,' yelled some one in the crowd, but he could not, or would not, for. Foley had given the Australian his orders, and he was never to leave his man for a second. Fight for his body, Joe, was Larry's mandate, 'He's slippery with his head.' And well was It for-Joe Goddard that, he had the king of seconds at his heels last night, for never in the world did a man need wise counsel In time of desperate. need more than did Joe Goddard last night.

"Smash'on the point went Choynski's left with a peculiar swing. Chop went his right, and down flop on his knees went Goddard. Then the frantic, furious, maddening struggle sped on, and the men, locked together from sheer exhaustion, swayed like two drunken men, and fell in. their tracks all in a heap on the floor. "As they struggled up Goddard was bleeding from nose and mouth and gash over the eye, and Choynski did not show a mark, but his body, neck and side of the head must, have felt as if one of the posts of the gates of hell had fallen upon him.

"Now for a moment it looked as if America had the battle won. Again and again did the plucky lad send home left and right on the iron frame of the giant, but he pegged away in vain. Flesh and blood would have quitted beneath the powerful blows Choynski had landed, but the Barrier man' is iron and road metal, with a heart of steel.

"Once on the ropes there was a .fearful rally, and' Choynski got his back on them to support himself while trying for a. knockout blow. Goddard did then as he did the first night he fought Owen Sullivan he drew back and hurled his' gigantic frame upon the slim Tankee lad, and crushed ,him over, the ropes,, and Joe, poor, game, dashing lad, slipped down looking, as If the ribs had been brushed out of him.

"A cry of 'Foul, foul!' was raised, but the fight went on, though now both men were helpless. Neither could lift a hand to deal a blow, .and If the fate of the nation had been in the balance then neither would have hurt a child. A few seconds they stood there thus, then the vitality that comes of a vigorous frame and good training, set them on their legs and again they, fought, and to the astonishment of all, Choynski dashed in his left four times hard and banned Joe Goddard so hard with his right that he dropped his hands and stood In the centre of the ring, rocking on his heels with a sickly smile."

Despite my defeat by Goddard, or Perhaps because of it, the Australians regarded me with great favor, and offered me a. match with Owen Sullivan, another leading heavyweight six feet five Inches tall. Sullivan had fought two terrific battles with Goddard. The match was made, and an admirer of mine whose name I cannot now recall, startled the Sydney sports by offering a wager of 300 pounds that I would stop Sullivan in four .rounds. The wager was promptly accepted of course.

Last edited by Mendoza; 05-28-2008 at 06:38 AM. Reason: More info added. Post broken up into two parts
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:36 AM   #2
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Part II

From the Gold Rush days through the turn of the century, San Francisco enjoyed a most distinguished and influential Jewish population. Choynski was one of these men. Coming from an intellectual background, it is difficult to imagine how young Joe, the son of Isador N. Choynski (a raconteur, antiquarian bookman and publisher of “Public Opinion”), could have evolved into such a preeminent world renown boxer-puncher. In one of the world’s roughest and toughest businesses, he is undoubtedly the greatest Jewish heavyweight of all time.

San Francisco’s Joe Choynski began boxing as an amateur in 1884 and turned professional in 1888. Although he never captured the heavyweight title in his career, he fought eight world champions: John L. Sullivan, James J. Corbett, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jim Jeffries, Marvin Hart, Jack Johnson, Joe Walcott and Kid McCoy. He also met such stalwarts as: Joe Goddard, Tom Sharkey, Peter Mahar, Gus Ruhlin, Ed Dunkhurst and Pete Everett. After his match with Choynski, the great champion James J. Jeffries had this to say: “He hit me so hard, he broke my nose and wedged my lips between my teeth...I have no regrets, I had taken a boxing lesson from a master and an artist.”

Years later, after Corbett had been the heavyweight boxing champion of the world, he praised the man with whom he had engaged in more contests than anyone else. “Joe Choynski, in my estimation, was one of the gamest and best fighters that ever lived, though a little bit too light for the heavyweight class. He was really as good as most champions I have seen.” Jack Johnson was knocked out in three rounds by Joe Choynski in Galveston on February 25, 1901. Years later, Johnson admitted that the knockout punch was the hardest he ever received.

Joe Choynski was not a brutal fighter. He achieved knockouts by skill and science. Brutality was against his nature. A sister-in-law, Mrs. Edwin Coe, described him fondly as a “kindly, soft-hearted, truly great personality whom everyone called a marvelous man.” She remembered his “handsome slenderness and his compassionate blue eyes.” He retained his comely appearance throughout the twenty years of his boxing career.
Not only was Joe a reader and a truly literate person, he was also known as a collector of antiques. When asked the secret of his longevity, he said it was important to retire early each night, abstain from tobacco and intoxicating liquor. In later years, Joe went back to school and graduated as a chiropractor. He also spent many long hours at the Young Men’s Hebrew Association teaching youngsters the fine art of boxing.

Choynski died on January 25, 1943 and was survived by his wife Louise, a former actress and member of a non-Jewish Cincinnati family. Although he never held a title, he was nevertheless a ‘TRUE CHAMPION.”
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Old 05-28-2008, 07:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

not really suprising, the sullivan of early 1890's was ripe for the picking by anyone with a pulse.
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Old 05-28-2008, 07:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

Wow, Choynski's suprisingly muscular.
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Old 05-28-2008, 07:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

Damn those old school fighters sure looked ripped,tough boys for sure
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Old 05-28-2008, 08:45 PM   #6
Mendoza
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell
Wow, Choynski's suprisingly muscular.
Photo was taken in 1898, which was Choynski's prime.
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

I've been working on a Joe Choynski biography (to be entitled, "The Choynski Chronicles, a Biography of the Hall of Fame Boxer, Joe Choynski"). It's nearing completion and I already have a few prospective publishers, although I have not been seriously looking for one yet. The book should be ready for the printers around the beginning of 2012.
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisboxer View Post
I've been working on a Joe Choynski biography (to be entitled, "The Choynski Chronicles, a Biography of the Hall of Fame Boxer, Joe Choynski"). It's nearing completion and I already have a few prospective publishers, although I have not been seriously looking for one yet. The book should be ready for the printers around the beginning of 2012.
Good luck!
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:56 PM   #9
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

He picked over the shot 1891 Sullivan, not a prime Sullivan ... what's interesting to note is that Cjoynski, who was considered a terrific hitter, referred to Sullivan as a much harder hitter than himself ....
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Old 08-17-2011, 10:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

From all I have read Goddard was a waste of talent, unrefined, crude but possessed of great power. And great thirst.

I will be first in line to read a well-done work on Choynski.
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Old 08-17-2011, 11:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
Wow, Choynski's suprisingly muscular.

Choynski was ripped and stayed ripped until he was about 70 years old. Amazing physical specimen. check out this pic from his 46th bday:

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Old 08-18-2011, 12:00 AM   #12
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

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Originally Posted by klompton View Post
Choynski was ripped and stayed ripped until he was about 70 years old. Amazing physical specimen. check out this pic from his 46th bday:

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BHop has got nothing on that.
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Old 08-18-2011, 05:42 AM   #13
Mendoza
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

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Originally Posted by he grant View Post
He picked over the shot 1891 Sullivan, not a prime Sullivan ... what's interesting to note is that Cjoynski, who was considered a terrific hitter, referred to Sullivan as a much harder hitter than himself ....
I do not think Choynski was a knockout artist. He did not score a high enough percentage of KOís to qualify for that title. I picture him as a 19040ís/1950ís Joe Walcott type. He has some power, but his speed and delivery method excellent. As they say in boxing itís the punch you donít see or donít expect that can hurt you.
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Old 08-18-2011, 07:21 AM   #14
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
I do not think Choynski was a knockout artist. He did not score a high enough percentage of KOís to qualify for that title. I picture him as a 19040ís/1950ís Joe Walcott type. He has some power, but his speed and delivery method excellent. As they say in boxing itís the punch you donít see or donít expect that can hurt you.
Choynski was definitely a knock out puncher. Both Fitz and Jeffries said he hit them harder than anyone else ever with single shots. He flattened Johnson with one shot. AS is the case with many punchers , their styles, over all abilities and quality of opposition determine their KO percentages as much or more than their power ..
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Old 08-18-2011, 08:16 AM   #15
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Default Re: Joe Choynski bio. Says Goddard beats JL Sullvian at the time he fought Goddard.

[quote=he grant;10474805]Choynski was definitely a knock out puncher. Both Fitz and Jeffries said he hit them harder than anyone else ever with single shots. He flattened Johnson with one shot. AS is the case with many punchers , their styles, over all abilities and quality of opposition determine their KO percentages as much or more than their power ..[/quote.

Ive read accounts that he had Fitz all but out in their fight, he certainly floored him
.It would be interesting to know exactly the weight discrepancy,[if any,] between Choynski and Johnson in 1901.
Choynski scaled 163lbs for a fight a year previous to their scrap,and 169lbs for a fight, a year after.
Johnson weighed 168lbs for a fight , 10 months prior to meeting Choynski so claims that he was a heavyweight facing a super middle weight are erroneous.





[Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ] This link shows a posed pic of Joe with Jack taken in 1909 ,8 years later.
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