Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-26-2012, 05:40 PM   #1
rorschach51
Bam Bam Warrior!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Arcola Il
Posts: 2,057
vCash: 75
Default Future of scoring: The Cortez 20/20 System

How many of you guys have heard about this yet? Joe Cortez was a guest on Leave it in the Ring Radio's: The Boxing Voice this past Sunday, explaining his improved system of scoring he has been studying on his own time. Apparently Ring Mag thinks so highly of the idea, they're doing a 4 page piece on it in their next issue. I'm gonna post the link to the interview, Joe is the final guest after Pedro Diaz and Tony Weeks so if you want to skip right to it, he's around the 95 minute mark of the show.

Here's the link to the podcast & the story [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

And here is the story posted on the The Voices site today

Quote:
Retired? Joe Cortez has a new scoring system that may change the course of boxing in retirement
A few weeks ago Hall of Fame referee Joe Cortez called his last fight in the sport. His swan song fight was the main event of Showtime’s September 15th telecast between Saul “Canelo” Alvarez and Josesito Lopez. Cortez will go down as one of the all-time greats, but he’ll also be remembered by some as controversial. The sad part about the job of a referee is that it goes mostly unnoticed and even when the job is well done it usually isn’t remembered or acknowledged. However, should a referee make a questionable it haunts them for the rest of their career.
Cortez’s legacy is cemented and I think from an overall standpoint the positives of a 30 plus year career will outweigh the negatives.
That isn’t good enough for Cortez. The esteemed former ref isn’t the typical lay out to pastor-golf playing-Florida living retiree. It seems now that his career as a ref is over Cortez will focus his efforts on a new venture in boxing. This time instead of helping boxing one fight at a time Cortez will try to take a role that allows him to change boxing as a whole, and for the better.
Cortez discussed his new found role in boxing with Thaboxingvoice.com and admitted that his decision to retire was only a matter of time. It seems as though Cortez realized he could do more for boxing without the bowtie and shiny shoes.
“I was looking to retire over a year ago. When I got inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame, I said to myself ‘I think it’s about time’ because there is so much more I want to do. I want to do a lot of more things for the betterment of boxing,” Cortez said on ThaBoxingVoice.com’s Sunday podcast.
The strides Cortez hopes to make are subtle and extreme at the same time. He explained the rationality that led to his epiphany.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] One bad call or score can scorn a ref or judge-Joe Cortez

“I want to change the [point of view] of the judges. The judges at the fights have the worst seat in the house, as far as I’m concerned. The referees, the ropes, the lights and the fighters themselves — the angles that the fighters are standing — are blocking the judge’s view. Judges cannot see if the punch landed clearly or not, there’s a lot of obstruction on the judges. We need something to stop all these controversial decisions.”
Cortez believes that the lack of clear visual perception of judges combined with lack of knowledge from fans has been what has caused the uproar in finger pointing at boxing officials.
“I think our judges are as fair and as honest as they come. I’m tired of listening to the media and the fans knocking our judges, saying that they’re ‘blind, incompetent, too old, and corrupt, I hate to hear that. People don’t realize the damage they can do mentally, not only to the judges, but to the family members as well when they knock these officials.”
“The viewers at home are able to see the angles of the fighters clearly. So the viewers are saying ‘what did the judges see? They missed everything, what were they watching?’ but the judges aren’t watching what the viewers are watching because they get better views,” Cortez said.
The development that Cortez has made is brilliant in its simplicity. It’s called the “Cortez 20/20 System” and it is basically a study on the angles and viewpoints available to judges in a fight. The experiment hopes to prove that the current point of view of judges is inefficient and can be bettered with an elevated view — much like that of tennis and volleyball officials.
“So I said ‘I’m going to do my own study.’ I got ladders and I put 3 judges 8ft above the ring apron and 3 judges at the lower level where they’re normally at. We did a 4 round exhibition with 2 fighters and me as a referee. I had 8 judges present from the amateur level and they had their [punch counters]. After the first round I asked the [judges whose view was above the ring] to tell me how many punches they missed — not how many that landed — and the top judges missed 1-3 punches. Then I asked the judges on the bottom [normal POV of judges] and they missed [anywhere from] 9 to 15 to 19.”
Cortez said that those discrepancies in numbers went on for 4 consecutive rounds. Essentially what Cortez’s study proved is that the judges with the elevated angle had a better perception of what was going on in the ring and the judges that had the normal viewpoint were only as in tuned to the fight as their limited angles would allow.
There should be little doubt in the proof of Cortez’s study, in fact, Cortez alluded to the fact that those who have seen the study first hand are incredibly enthusiastic about the prospects of the study and not just from a boxing standpoint — it seems that Cortez has had a positive reaction from the MMA crowd as well. However, the doubt I have stems from those who have the power to make changes. Cortez seems optimistic and that gives me enough hope in and of itself.
“I think the time has come where boxing needs a shot in the arm and they’ve been begging for solutions, well I got the solutions and this is going to go worldwide [with the help of Ring Magazine/Ringtv.com]. Ring Magazine is going to show you all the different angles and punches from all the different viewpoints.
“Positioning is so important, not only for the referee, but for the judges as well and that’s why I came up with the Cortez 20/20 System,” Cortez said.
In order for this thing to gain any momentum it has to be backed, at least in theory, by the local commissions and sanction bodies. Cortez believes that if one State gets behind it then the rest will follow.
There are still some grey areas to me, I mean all I can imagine is a scaffold that hangs over the ring sitting 3 judges (You ever seen an ECW scaffold match from back in the day?). The only other thing I can imagine is something that would block the view of fans, which would be counterproductive in the end. Cortez insists that the apparatus he has engineered is easy enough for the judges to “climb” up and down from.
Still, it seems as though there are some concrete ideas surrounded by some good old fashion initiative. Cortez says he’s prepared to travel the country on his own dime in order to show the system to people of interests. More importantly, Cortez insists that money isn’t his driving point and will have no monetary gain should this system be implemented.
I know it’s hard to believe that all this effort isn’t somehow motivated by money. I would imagine that Cortez would be compensated in some way shape or form. Regardless, the kind of advances being made by Cortez would forward the boxing world into a more progressive and hopefully more positive manner. Those strides alone are enough to turn a Hall of Fame career like Cortez’s into one of boxing’s most celebrated humanitarians.
According to Cortez, The Ring Magazine’scoverage on his system will be on the next issue. I’ll reserve my full opinion on the system until I can see the physical evidence (i.e. pictures and data) provided by The Ring.
Basically he believes a higher vantage point for the judges will lead to much more accurate judges decisions. He wants to perch 3 judges around the ring, similar to the way judges in Tennis and Volleyball are perched. He says in his own studies where he had 3 judges perched, and 3 judges in their normal places, the elevated judges missed a considerable amount less of landed punches then the normal seated judges.

What do you guys think about this idea?

Last edited by rorschach51; 09-26-2012 at 08:38 PM.
rorschach51 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-26-2012, 05:50 PM   #2
Brickhaus
Packs the house
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Badlefthook.com
Posts: 11,159
vCash: 75
Default Re: Possible future of scoring: the Cortez 20/20 System

Frankly, that sounds like a great idea, and I feel dumb for not thinking of it first. I still do think there are a lot of incompetent judges, but simply getting them a better angle should improve things. I mean, why should TV viewers have a better angle than the judges who actually need to score the fight?

At first, based on the title, I thought this proposal was just going to be a variation of Argentina's half-point system.
Brickhaus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 05:57 PM   #3
rorschach51
Bam Bam Warrior!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Arcola Il
Posts: 2,057
vCash: 75
Default Re: Possible future of scoring: the Cortez 20/20 System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickhaus View Post
Frankly, that sounds like a great idea, and I feel dumb for not thinking of it first. I still do think there are a lot of incompetent judges, but simply getting them a better angle should improve things. I mean, why should TV viewers have a better angle than the judges who actually need to score the fight?

At first, based on the title, I thought this proposal was just going to be a variation of Argentina's half-point system.
I know right it's such a simple yet smart idea it's hard to believe nobody has come up with it yet. I really hope it catches on, it could make a world of difference in cutting down on the amount of controversial decisions.
rorschach51 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 06:09 PM   #4
MattMattMatt
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,712
vCash: 75
Default Re: Possible future of scoring: the Cortez 20/20 System

I can't think of a good reason not to do that. The only negatives would be:
- it's not traditional (I don't care for that, judging is one of the main aspects boxing needs to improve, so forget tradition!).
- it might obscure some fans views when watching live (I'm sure they can figure out seating and placement to mitigate that).

Forgetting any controversial fights he was involved in, I think he's onto something here. Whilst I don't think the study was exactly thorough enough to warrant admission to a scientific journal, I think the idea just happens to be one that's a blindingly obvious improvement that can't fail to help the judges see better.
MattMattMatt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 06:29 PM   #5
zato-one
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,114
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Possible future of scoring: the Cortez 20/20 System

As much as I hated him as a ref...This is genius. Actually.
zato-one is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 06:38 PM   #6
Vyborg1917
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 895
vCash: 161
Default Re: Possible future of scoring: the Cortez 20/20 System

Vyborg1917 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 06:50 PM   #7
Leon
The Artful Dodger
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SBA
Posts: 20,130
vCash: 75
Default Re: Possible future of scoring: the Cortez 20/20 System

Quote:
Originally Posted by rorschach51 View Post
How many of you guys have heard about this yet? Joe Cortez was a guest on Leave it in the Ring Radio's: The Boxing Voice this past Sunday, explaining his improved system of scoring he has been studying on his own time. Apparently Ring Mag thinks so highly of the idea, they're doing a 4 page piece on it in their next issue. I'm gonna post the link to the interview, Joe is the final guest after Pedro Diaz and Tony Weeks so if you want to skip right to it, he's around the 95 minute mark of the show.

Here's the link to the podcast & the story [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

And here is the story posted on the The Voices site today

Basically he believes a higher vantage point for the judges will lead to much more accurate judges decisions. He wants to perch 3 judges around the ring, similar to the way judges in Tennis and Volleyball are perched. He says in his own studies where he had 3 judges perched, and 3 judges in their normal places, the elevated judges missed a considerable amount less of landed punches then the normal seated judges.

What do you guys think about this idea?
great idea. The hardest part would be implementing it. I found that boxing is a sport living in the stone age. It's very resistant and slow to change.
Leon is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 06:52 PM   #8
Leon
The Artful Dodger
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SBA
Posts: 20,130
vCash: 75
Default Re: Possible future of scoring: the Cortez 20/20 System

and those compubox guys need to be perched up too
Leon is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 06:53 PM   #9
rorschach51
Bam Bam Warrior!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Arcola Il
Posts: 2,057
vCash: 75
Default Re: Possible future of scoring: the Cortez 20/20 System

Quote:
Originally Posted by zato-one View Post
As much as I hated him as a ref...This is genius. Actually.
I know. The idea is so amazing in it's simplicity, that it is truly unbelievable no one in the history of the game has ever come up with it yet. The concept was right there under everyone's noises this whole time with Volleyball and Tennis to name the most prominent sports showing the way this whole time. Hopefully the Nevada or California athletic commissions give this idea a chance. I really think this concept could go a long way in fixing a big problem that has been plaguing boxing since forever.
rorschach51 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 06:53 PM   #10
Leon
The Artful Dodger
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SBA
Posts: 20,130
vCash: 75
Default Re: Possible future of scoring: the Cortez 20/20 System

They could sell these boxseats to the ballers
Leon is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 06:55 PM   #11
irishny
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,566
vCash: 75
Default Re: Possible future of scoring: the Cortez 20/20 System

brilliant in its simplicity
irishny is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 08:33 PM   #12
rorschach51
Bam Bam Warrior!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Arcola Il
Posts: 2,057
vCash: 75
Default Re: Possible future of scoring: the Cortez 20/20 System

Posted this a couple hours earlier, for those of you who haven't seen it yet
rorschach51 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 08:44 PM   #13
PetethePrince
Slick & Redheaded
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,396
vCash: 1200
Default Re: Possible future of scoring: the Cortez 20/20 System

Quote:
Originally Posted by rorschach51 View Post
I know right it's such a simple yet smart idea it's hard to believe nobody has come up with it yet. I really hope it catches on, it could make a world of difference in cutting down on the amount of controversial decisions.
Agreed. I was expecting something lofty considering it's called a 20/20 system. I don't get why, just to make it sound more fancy I guess. It seems like a great idea.
PetethePrince is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 08:49 PM   #14
SugarShane_24
ESB good-looking member
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: the few, the proud, the Philippines
Posts: 4,439
vCash: 75
Default Re: Future of scoring: The Cortez 20/20 System

Should've made a dry run with some commissions on lower-level promotions.

More of a case-study per se.

They should try it with three actual judges who were sanctioned to score the fight and three on the elevated flatform.

Then compare the scores after the fight.

And probably after a year of evaluation, study the comparison and decide whether or not to completely apply it as the actual scores.

Sound like a plan though. One problem, I'm not that keen on heights.
SugarShane_24 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 08:50 PM   #15
rorschach51
Bam Bam Warrior!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Arcola Il
Posts: 2,057
vCash: 75
Default Re: Possible future of scoring: the Cortez 20/20 System

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
Agreed. I was expecting something lofty considering it's called a 20/20 system. I don't get why, just to make it sound more fancy I guess. It seems like a great idea.
I hear ya but nope, what he's proposing is as simple as posting the appointed judges in elevated seats 8 feet above. So they would be able to get a birds eye view so to speak. It really is hard to fathom this idea hasn't been thought of before, there really isn't much to it, yet I believe it would make a world of difference.
rorschach51 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013