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Old 10-01-2012, 07:30 PM   #91
thawk888
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
Your point isn't untrue it's just a case of focusing on a technicality.

What's Floyd going to exactly do to out-work or bully Sergio on the inside by the way?

Sergio's going to maneuver, or let his hands go. Floyd is not Ward. Hell, he's not even James Toney when it comes to the inside. These exaggerations need to stop.
Oh, don't get me wrong. Mayweather can't out-bully a dry flea on the inside, but he doesn't have too. What he's strong enough to do, is to keep you from getting him into really bad positions. Basically, he won't bully you, but you'll use a ton of energy up trying to bully him. Meanwhile, while trying to get him into position, he's punching you. Everyone seems to fall for it.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:30 PM   #92
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by bballchump11 View Post
Sergio is bigger than Floyd and has more power, and that's about the only thing that'll help him vs Floyd in the pocket. Floyd is a smart fighter up close. I was surprised and happy to see Sergio beat Chavez up close in the inside, but he was completely open the whole side and his only answer for it seemed to be just to absorb the punches coming at him.
I don't think the fight will take place too long there, but I do believe we'll see some action there and Floyd will be the one mostly in control. Floyd has outfought plenty of guys bigger than him up close
I just don't see Floyd engaging there. It's going to be a chess match. Floyd will feint, and counter the shit out of Martinez. He's not going to exploit Martinez on the inside. Despite Floyd being less open on the inside, it's more of a risk because Martinez will have no reluctance to let his hands go, or shift and get into a middle range to out-maneuver Floyd.

You are right, Martinez is rather open defensively. He's not as meticulous and as skillful as Mayweather. He doesn't choice risk-adverse when works with his legs, activity, and counter-punching ability as his best assets. His style allows him to be a little more open and to afford being a little more open as well, though.

Can you give me extensive examples of your last point?
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:31 PM   #93
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

Floyd's legs have really slowed down. That's the biggest factor in this fight imo. Floyd of 2009 wins via ud as he still had explosive legs and cat like reflexes. How many leaping left hooks did we see him throw against Cotto? I can't recall one. That along with his lead right was his bread and butter. Floyd has been a much more stationary fight for years. I think sometimes by choice but sometimes it's because his legs have really slowed.

Sergio will have about 15 lbs on Floyd. Floyd can't hurt Sergio and we all know Sergio can seriously hurt Floyd. With Floyd being a lot more stationary, i just envision a fight with a lot of exchanges and it's not in Floyd's best interest to do so. In some respects, he will be a sitting duck, no longer able to quickly dart out of danger.

But this fight isn't happening cause Floyd would get ktfo.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:33 PM   #94
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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This is all just a pipedream . If you really believe Mayweather will ever fight Martinez I've got some beach front property in Oklahoma to sell
This,

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Old 10-01-2012, 07:33 PM   #95
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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We'll never know cause Chavez never mounted an offense to show if Martinez really knows what he's doing close range. Letting your hands go to a punching bag does not equate to "inside fighting". i.e. Pac vs. Margarito

Slipping, countering, getting a man into position while shoulder to shoulder is inside fighting, imo. Something I've never seen Martinez exhibit.
Martinez would get hit. Chavez did not do what Roach insisted for 11 pounds "Punch in between the punches." When he did, and when Sergio got over-confident, he dropped him. Chavez didn't take the risk so he didn't earn the reward to win. He covered up far too often. But when he did exchange, Martinez straighter puncher got the better of it. That's what made Chavez reluctant for the majority of the fight.

I get your point, and I'd agree. Just what exactly does Floyd do to boss opponents on the inside? Enlighten me. Don't show me some defensive display. If Floyd wants to make things anymore gritty or dangerous then he has to he's going to pay a risk getting in between the multiples straight shots from various angles before Floyd can do anything offensively on the inside. Again, he is not Ward. Not even James Toney when it comes to in-fighting.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:35 PM   #96
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Oh, don't get me wrong. Mayweather can't out-bully a dry flea on the inside, but he doesn't have too. What he's strong enough to do, is to keep you from getting him into really bad positions. Basically, he won't bully you, but you'll use a ton of energy up trying to bully him. Meanwhile, while trying to get him into position, he's punching you. Everyone seems to fall for it.
That's why I think what makes Martinez dangerous in comparison to most Floyd opponents is his conditioning. Martinez is going to have out-work Mayweather more than having to out-box really. He won't and can't purely do the latter.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:36 PM   #97
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

I could really imagine Martinez gettin in Maynever's ass (yes homo) during the hbo face off
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:38 PM   #98
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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How many leaping left hooks did we see him throw against Cotto? I can't recall one.
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Look at the way Cotto is holding his right to his temple. Left hooks weren't going to help in this fight. Diaz did his homework and tried to negate a lot of what Floyd naturally does. Hence the adjustment on Mayweather's end, looping the right and going with lead uppercuts.

I'd have to see Floyd fight again to know if it's actual slippage.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:38 PM   #99
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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The size and strenght of Matinez is enought to negate any gameplan brought by Maywether. He is going to take more hurting from Martinez in the pocket and exchanges than Martinez will from Floyd.

Strenght might be a basic factor to base the outcome of the fight on , but i think thats what it ultimately come's down to. And the reason why Floyd wont take the fight.
skills pay the bills. Sergio's size will most definitely an issue in this fight and it's what made coming up with a gameplan so difficult along with Sergio's skill and athleticism. The one thing about Sergio's size is style won't make it impose itself on Floyd. I think Chavez is a tougher fight for Floyd than Sergio is.

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Originally Posted by rayrobinson View Post
Ball , Sergio stops Cotto , Mosley , Ortiz , JMM ,Hatton ,

Being unbeaten doesnt mean you are unbeatable.

If Mayweather wants to talk about his health he should fight Pacquiao before even considering Sergio.

If Cotto can get to you then Sergio stops you.
styles make fights.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:41 PM   #100
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

At 154, this is a winnable fight for Floyd.

At 16o, probably not.

Martinez would have too much power and Floyd too little chin at the MW limit, and the slight speed advantage Floyd enjoys at 154 would be gone.

I think Floyd could probably beat any other current MW though, including junior.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:47 PM   #101
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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I just don't see Floyd engaging there. It's going to be a chess match. Floyd will feint, and counter the shit out of Martinez. He's not going to exploit Martinez on the inside. Despite Floyd being less open on the inside, it's more of a risk because Martinez will have no reluctance to let his hands go, or shift and get into a middle range to out-maneuver Floyd.

You are right, Martinez is rather open defensively. He's not as meticulous and as skillful as Mayweather. He doesn't choice risk-adverse when works with his legs, activity, and counter-punching ability as his best assets. His style allows him to be a little more open and to afford being a little more open as well, though.

Can you give me extensive examples of your last point?
yeah I get what you're saying. Floyd may not make it his mission to take the fight there, but I think he'll get the better of it as long as he doesn't get tagged too much.

And Floyd outfought Shane up close and did it with Cotto at times (though Cotto had his most success there I must admit). He prepares for his fights by sparring in the pocker with middleweights.

Here's some parts of the fight with Shane
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:47 PM   #102
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

Thx for the thread bball, you flomo.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:47 PM   #103
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by bballchump11 View Post
skills pay the bills. Sergio's size will most definitely an issue in this fight and it's what made coming up with a gameplan so difficult along with Sergio's skill and athleticism. The one thing about Sergio's size is style won't make it impose itself on Floyd. I think Chavez is a tougher fight for Floyd than Sergio is.


styles make fights.
You cannot be serious, Chavez a tougher fight for Floyd than Martinez? Floyd would pick Chavez apart and win in a stinker. Martinez' strength, unorthadox style/stance, and speed would make a much tougher fight IMHO. Especially with the more stationary style of fighting Floyd has today. Floyd would have some difficulty with Martinez' speed, seeing as he has not fought many guys who have been able to match his speed, as well as his reflexes, which Martinez certainly can match. I'm sure Martinez would get tagged some, but Floyd isn't the hard hitter he once was, and is too economical with this punches to win a fight based on accumilation. I think Martinez would let his hands fly often vs. Floyd. I don't think he'd respect floyd's punch, or willingness to engage. Best way to beat Floyd it to make it a brawl, make Floyd fight out of his comfort zone. I think Martinez posses well enough skill, along with this other attributes I mentioned, to make this happen. But of course, as others have already said. I doubt it will happen. Only two guys for Floyd to fight, that's Pac or Martinez. If he won't fight either, he might as well call it a day. Beating Canelo still means little, since Canelo is STILL YET to face a top contender in his class.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:50 PM   #104
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Look at the way Cotto is holding his right to his temple. Left hooks weren't going to help in this fight. Diaz did his homework and tried to negate a lot of what Floyd naturally does. Hence the adjustment on Mayweather's end, looping the right and going with lead uppercuts.

I'd have to see Floyd fight again to know if it's actual slippage.
Whatever the case, it's a a fact that Floyd has been fighting a very stationary style with the high guard for years. And i don't think it's completely by choice. I think he is trying to maximize his talents with what he has at his age because he knows he no longer has the cat like reflexes nor the natural spring in his step which allowed him to dominate people in his younger days. This makes him more limited and easier to track down. Bad news if you are fighting a guy much bigger than you with power.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:52 PM   #105
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

I don't remember Floyd and Shane fighting inside much, but when it happened it featured Shane getting beat up
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