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Old 10-01-2012, 09:15 PM   #121
elchivito
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I don't think Floyd would stop Sergio.

It'll go to Floyd if it's a close fight imo. Floyd has consistently been the draw between them plus people tend to sympathize with the little kid who is fighting a big kid
I think with Floyd getting bigger and stronger he's bringing some power with him and that was clear in the 12th against Cotto and Cotto tho small he is strong for a 154lber. I think Sergio tho very successful at 160, he has the chin and resistance of a 154lber. Naturally bigger fighters like Pavlik were still able to get him off balance and muscle him around. Tho many claim Floyds legs are leaving him I dont think it was as important aspect to his game as his head and waist movement those are his keys. I think Sergio is too active for Floyd and he'll miss alot, but just like he got overconfident with Chavez Jr the same can happen vs Floyd. Maravilla has alot of heart tho and that may make up for his resistance. I think Maravillas power may be overrated abit while Floyds is underrated. This wont be a slugfest on that I'm sure, but both are capable of seriously hurting each other.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:48 PM   #122
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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I think with Floyd getting bigger and stronger he's bringing some power with him and that was clear in the 12th against Cotto and Cotto tho small he is strong for a 154lber. I think Sergio tho very successful at 160, he has the chin and resistance of a 154lber. Naturally bigger fighters like Pavlik were still able to get him off balance and muscle him around. Tho many claim Floyds legs are leaving him I dont think it was as important aspect to his game as his head and waist movement those are his keys. I think Sergio is too active for Floyd and he'll miss alot, but just like he got overconfident with Chavez Jr the same can happen vs Floyd. Maravilla has alot of heart tho and that may make up for his resistance. I think Maravillas power may be overrated abit while Floyds is underrated. This wont be a slugfest on that I'm sure, but both are capable of seriously hurting each other.
interesting reasoning

I also find it strange how Floyd was able to buckle both of his opponents at 154, one is even known for having an iron chin, yet he wasn't able to buckle everyone he fought just a weight division below at 147. Zab, who isn't known for a godo chin, was being hit with everything but still didn't buckle
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:54 PM   #123
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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interesting reasoning

I also find it strange how Floyd was able to buckle both of his opponents at 154, one is even known for having an iron chin, yet he wasn't able to buckle everyone he fought just a weight division below at 147. Zab, who isn't known for a godo chin, was being hit with everything but still didn't buckle
Zab saw everything coming. Cotto got caught right on the button on the chin through the guard, and DLH didn't quite see the right incoming over his left.

Have to say though, after seeing Sergio just take Jr.'s shots, even if he does go down to 154, I don't see Floyd hurting him. Not that he'd need to if he fights the perfect fight, but I don't see it being a factor or advantage.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:54 PM   #124
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

I think Floyd would also have success going into and coming out of clinches, he likes to get a shot or two in, tie up, and coming off the break get in position to land a good shot. Typically that shot will cause his opponents to go defensive and let Floyd get off some risk free combos. I view it as an extension of his "inside game" and something he does pretty well.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:57 PM   #125
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Zab saw everything coming. Cotto got caught right on the button on the chin through the guard, and DLH didn't quite see the right incoming over his left.

Have to say though, after seeing Sergio just take Jr.'s shots, even if he does go down to 154, I don't see Floyd hurting him. Not that he'd need to if he fights the perfect fight, but I don't see it being a factor or advantage.
I don't think Floyd could seriously hurt him, but I could see him "hurting" him as in the way he hurt SSM. Never having him wobbled or anything but stinging him enough to get and keep his attention. Floyd would benefit from making this a rugged ugly fight, smothering Martinez and trying to frustrate him.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:59 PM   #126
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

Cheers to BBC and Bogo for some great points if this fight ever takes place...I like Mayweather here...I think Floyd will vary his attack at times leading but most of the time letting Martinez lead then capitalizing and taking what is given. Martinez after while will attempt to use his size, but honestly think when Floyd waits on him he will take Martinez somewhat out of his comfort zone. I like Floyd by convincing decision.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:03 PM   #127
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

i kind of got through the first paragraph of the OP and thats about it... im sure the rest was good.

BUT....

Mayweather DOES NOT pressure forward, NOT in the 1st 1/2 of the fight. Only times ive seen him do that if the opponent is already weakened and in trouble. First 1/2 of the fight he stays in the defensive shell until he creates a mental mindswitch against his opponent. Can take up to 6 rounds to mentally weaken an opponent and he'll feel comfortable going forward and taking on the offense...

Why change something when it hasnt proven to be broken?
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:09 PM   #128
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

He won't even fight him though, so this is basically another fantasy matchup win for Mayweather.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:14 PM   #129
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
Zab saw everything coming. Cotto got caught right on the button on the chin through the guard, and DLH didn't quite see the right incoming over his left.

Have to say though, after seeing Sergio just take Jr.'s shots, even if he does go down to 154, I don't see Floyd hurting him. Not that he'd need to if he fights the perfect fight, but I don't see it being a factor or advantage.
Same here. I too don't believe Floyd needs to outright HURT ***y Sergio by buckling or dazing him in order to win. Floyd's pop just has to be sufficient enough not to be walked right through like his name is Paulie Malignaggi. Judging from what I seen from Floyd at 154, he has enough power to give Sergio something to think about
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:14 PM   #130
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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It was a bunch of Shanes arms flailing and Mayweather bludgeoning him with straight rights and left crosses.
We can't really consider that inside when we don't with Martinez against Chavez, which was certainly far closer to that.

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That's an excellent point, he finally got to Martinez when he timed his own punches between Sergio's, excellent advice from Roach. I don't think Floyd prefers that method though, that's something a counter-puncher like Marquez thrives on. Floyd is great in the pocket defensively, but I don't see him initiating clinches. He reacts to inside pressure, he doesn't smother. But if Martinez chooses to find him there or the fall into a clinch, the question is who's craft will be superior? I see Floyd's ability to push with the shoulder and grab with his arms while hitting as being effective, but I feel Martinez would just throw with much more willingness and have more success at close range.
Exactly. But their was risk in Chavez's approach. It's not as if he now knows he can win and do this in a rematch and win. He could've gotten knocked out trying, but at least he had a chance to win.

Floyd is calculated, and about as risk-adverse as you can get. Agree with the bold. I don't really get Floyd fan's making this some point of emphasis. I don't see his offensive prowess in this range. I agree with you, and that Martinez willingness makes him far more effective and dangerous on the inside offensively. Floyd's going to react, push with the shoulder, etc. Floyd's is every bit as better on a technical standpoint on the inside, but offensively Martinez will be far more dangerous if Floyd complies or fancies his chances at that range. I think it's practically moot since this is not where the fight will take place. Even if someone could make a difference. I feel Martinez will shift and Floyd would clinch instead. Feels like a fantasy within a fantasy.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:18 PM   #131
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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This isn't a sprinting or bike riding contest. But you keep up with that opinion sir.
If he can use angles and shift his punches from angles he might be able to create opportunities. It does not have to be all just wasted movement. Bogo posted a good GIF of Cotto doing this against Mayweather I believe he did this out of a southpaw stance. Assuming each man doesn't give away ground, I certainly think it's a viable factor.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:16 AM   #132
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Same here. I too don't believe Floyd needs to outright HURT ***y Sergio by buckling or dazing him in order to win. Floyd's pop just has to be sufficient enough not to be walked right through like his name is Paulie Malignaggi. Judging from what I seen from Floyd at 154, he has enough power to give Sergio something to think about
Word

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Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
We can't really consider that inside when we don't with Martinez against Chavez, which was certainly far closer to that.



Exactly. But their was risk in Chavez's approach. It's not as if he now knows he can win and do this in a rematch and win. He could've gotten knocked out trying, but at least he had a chance to win.

Floyd is calculated, and about as risk-adverse as you can get. Agree with the bold. I don't really get Floyd fan's making this some point of emphasis. I don't see his offensive prowess in this range. I agree with you, and that Martinez willingness makes him far more effective and dangerous on the inside offensively. Floyd's going to react, push with the shoulder, etc. Floyd's is every bit as better on a technical standpoint on the inside, but offensively Martinez will be far more dangerous if Floyd complies or fancies his chances at that range. I think it's practically moot since this is not where the fight will take place. Even if someone could make a difference. I feel Martinez will shift and Floyd would clinch instead. Feels like a fantasy within a fantasy.
LMAO for some reason that shit had me laughing out loud not sure why, just the way you phrased it...but I agree, scenarios in which they engage in inside exchanges or extended clinches doesn't pan out for me.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:21 AM   #133
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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We can't really consider that inside when we don't with Martinez against Chavez, which was certainly far closer to that.
Who said I considered any of what happened in the Shane/Mayweather fight as inside fighting?

Shane was on the end of Mayweather's punches all night.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:31 AM   #134
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Floyd is calculated, and about as risk-adverse as you can get. Agree with the bold. I don't really get Floyd fan's making this some point of emphasis. I don't see his offensive prowess in this range. I agree with you, and that Martinez willingness makes him far more effective and dangerous on the inside offensively. Floyd's going to react, push with the shoulder, etc. Floyd's is every bit as better on a technical standpoint on the inside, but offensively Martinez will be far more dangerous if Floyd complies or fancies his chances at that range. I think it's practically moot since this is not where the fight will take place. Even if someone could make a difference. I feel Martinez will shift and Floyd would clinch instead. Feels like a fantasy within a fantasy.
I think why some bring up the chance of seldom inside exchanges between the two is because Sergio's would miss, and a lot.

One of the main reasons why opponents end up getting so close to Floyd is because they have fits trying to land anything meaningful on him mid to long range. It's a trap that they fall for. Because they get so frustrated not landing on him, they get closer and closer and closer, till they're basically on top of him. So they might not initially want to get in close range on Floyd (though many come in with the "crowding" tactic), but at some point it ends up happening due to his defensive posture, it even happened to the great JMM at certain points.

When's the last time you've seen Floyd out-boxed for more than a couple rounds at a time, or in certain spots? I just really don't see Martinez doing any different. The ONLY thing Martinez has in his favor is his size, strength, comparable quickness of hand. His craft isn't even a factor, imo.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:39 AM   #135
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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LMAO for some reason that shit had me laughing out loud not sure why, just the way you phrased it...but I agree, scenarios in which they engage in inside exchanges or extended clinches doesn't pan out for me.
Oh, I see it now.

In that poor wording, their fighting style might reflect the only way how that crazy situation could go down (No homo).

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I think why some bring up the chance of seldom inside exchanges between the two is because Sergio's would miss, and a lot.

One of the main reasons why opponents end up getting so close to Floyd is because they have fits trying to land anything meaningful on him mid to long range. It's a trap that they fall for. Because they get so frustrated not landing on him, they get closer and closer and closer, till they're basically on top of him. So they might not initially want to get in close range on Floyd (though many come in with the "crowding" tactic), but at some point it ends up happening due to his defensive posture, it even happened to the great JMM at certain points.

When's the last time you've seen Floyd out-boxed for more than a couple rounds at a time, or in certain spots? I just really don't see Martinez doing any different. The ONLY thing Martinez has in his favor is his size, strength, comparable quickness of hand. His craft isn't even a factor, imo.
The only thing Marquez really was able to do was closer up. It's a less of two evils kind of scenario. Even if Segio is missing a lot, you don't end up scoring points for great defense. Think that GIF of Marquez punching gloves and air. Floyd doesn't even counter or do anything but make Marquez look silly. Same with Ortiz with Floyd on the ropes. If anything, just pure missing and aggression gets more of a chance to be scored that pure defense. If people mean that Floyd gets the better of it on the inside by making Sergio miss and look silly... well that's a fairer point I think.

I think you're downplaying activity. I know they aren't comparable, but Oscar won 4 rounds with size and activity (Yes, coupled with a good jab). Work-rate and angles (With both hands and feet) is Martinez only key to victory IMO. If Cotto is capable of touching you up from a southpaw stance, I don't see how it's inconceivable that Martinez can't find a way of doing so by giving Floyd a challenge.
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