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Old 10-05-2012, 07:43 PM   #1
Marlow
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Default Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roach?

I can't help but think it did.

What do you guys think?
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

NO....

Hes not a child..... hes a grown man.... If he was good enough he would have won.... simple.... No excuses...... the better man won....
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

I like this thread .

Johnny, Basically to cut a long story short, Marlow's asking did the title stop him developing. Did Khan turn off, did it bring back the arrogance that lead to his demise in the M.E.N against Prescott.

Sometimes people who find success rest on laurels, did Khan take the title and the wins as 'job done'?. When you win a title you go from the hunter to the hunted. Khan kinda skipped his levels very quickly, i remember us being shocked at him moving to 140lbs for the title shot.

Roach devised a fairly simple gameplan and style for Khan, but it never really evolved. Do we blame Roach?. Khan? or Both?. But the did the title maybe take away from the learning. Did Khan miss out on maybe one or two more bouts where he could of kept that learning feeling. Because now after being a two title holder at 140lbs he's heading back to learning bouts and confidence boosters.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

Did the gameplan need to evolve? If Khan had boxed against Peterson and Garcia like he did against Kotelnik and Malignaggi would he have lost?
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

It's interesting to hear someone say this, after all the flak that Khan got for taking soft opponents. It seems like one of Khan's biggest motivators is to prove people wrong, whether it be about his punch resistance, or just how good he is in general. Winning the title exacerbated that. The ****y attitude which grew out his success also led to his last TKO. The game plan he executed against Kotelnik would stand him in good stead if he had applied something similar against Garcia...but he got drawn into a brawl, which is a ring IQ issue.

If we look at someone like Wladimir Klitschko, he had two bad TKO losses which actually came a little later in his career (but his opponents had generally been so soft that the first decent test was probably a bit of a shock!). However, following the second loss Wlad and Emmanuel went back to the drawing board and somehow reinvented him as pretty much unbeatable on the current heavyweight scene (and decent in any era), with people now mentioning him in some ATG discussions. That is an absolutely monumental achievement and that will be rightly viewed in a very positive light once he retires.

The question is can Khan do the same? Can Virgil be to Khan what Emmanuel is to Wlad? Ultimately I think it all comes down to whether he can get his feet on the ground, take a realistic look at the situation, get all the 'yes men' out of his mind for a while, and forge an appropriate style, with Virgil, to suit his physical abilities and limitations. Khan has to accept that, and use it as a foundation upon which to make his weaknesses almost irrelevant, and his strengths almost impossible to overcome.

After a few fights with Virgil I think we'll have a lot of insight into how the rest of Khan's career is going to pan out.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:51 PM   #6
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

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Did the gameplan need to evolve? If Khan had boxed against Peterson and Garcia like he did against Kotelnik and Malignaggi would he have lost?
TBH that gameplan for me is and was transitional. It was a basic get in and get out style. Peterson would of just walked towards him and still done the same work IMO. Khan would of still reacted in the same way. When you throw you've got to be prepared for punches to come back.

When Khan goes into retreat he runs, it's not educated footwork. So to answer your question he still would of lost to Garcia. Peterson he did his best work on the front foot.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

Just rewatching the HBO version of the Garcia fight and Lampley says in round two ''That's one of the big things he (Roach) wanted from the Peterson fight he wanted Khan to stop bouncing on his feet. To not let the opponent knock him off balance. Be more flat footed. Stay steady and stick his punches''.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

You cant go in a shower and not get wet....
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

Something happened after the Maidana fight which changed Khan and Roach's approach to the fights i feel both started to focus too much on attacking and trying to KO, Khan might be hitting hard in sparing when he close to 150 but on fightnights after weighing the day before at 140 Khan dont really have real KO power in his punches which then should send him on the path of slowly breaking down oppoents and winning on points, yet i feel trying to blast out Peterson and Garcia in the first 2 rounds shows lack of respect and professional approach to a World title fight.

Khan and Roach should know Khan's good areas and bad ones Khan is not a power puncher in short Khan is not Manny, what Khan is a very fast high workrate fighter which can win him rounds, when Khan hits and moves he is near outpointable in a rounds to due his workrate movement and handspeed it is simple yet very effective so why **** with a winning style???

Only can answer with sucess got to Khan and Roach's heads.

Answer the thread question no i think winning the title was a good thing and Khan was going the right way after the first World title maybe to well and they got too big headed, hope that Garcia loss puts Khan's head back to reality.


Focus Focus Focus one punch can change a fight...
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:25 AM   #10
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

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Originally Posted by SkillspayBills View Post
Just rewatching the HBO version of the Garcia fight and Lampley says in round two ''That's one of the big things he (Roach) wanted from the Peterson fight he wanted Khan to stop bouncing on his feet. To not let the opponent knock him off balance. Be more flat footed. Stay steady and stick his punches''.
Sounds like Roach was too results orientated. Styles make fights. Just because you lose to Peterson doesn't mean you gotta change styles to beat Garcia. Obviously if you lose to Peterson you gotta make changes to beat Peterson.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:07 AM   #11
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

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My thoughts on Amir Khan. Haven't watched the Garcia fight closely enough to have a rethink.

Last edited by bruthead; 10-06-2012 at 03:18 AM.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

I think the ''I need to win a world title asap'' affected his development, yes.

Plus, the public demanded big opponents for him, because he got star billing.... and even at that time his ego wouldn't allow him to get in a solid eight or ten rounds on an undercard somewhere.

With the knowledge that he was going to be in with safe opponents for a prolonged period, Roach could have worked with him and taught him a few things - no doubt he did anyway, but he wasn't ever able to instill that discipline in him that he so badly needed.

Of course, the likelyhood is that he'd have got hit and reverted to type.... utterly clueless on the inside and incapable of catching a break by holding on or using his feet to get him out of trouble.
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:25 AM   #13
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

In a way yes, but overall i dont think it did, lets be honest Kotelnik, Malignaggi, Maidana, Judah were all good performances. I think the success he was having and being so close to being undisputed champ made him a bit ****y, i discount the Peterson loss tbf as he's a drugs cheat who admitted being on it against Khan, but i remember in the corner against Peterson Roach telling Khan things that he just did nto try to execute in the fight. Roach gets a lot of stick but he improved Khan immensely imo, if you leave yourself that open to a same time shot you will get ko'ed, i thought he looked good and may have broken Garcia down to a stoppage but was rushing it too much
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:30 AM   #14
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

I think he was almost too soon to prove himself he has a style where against a certian tyepof opponent even at a decent level he can look very good against. Its fast its exciting its pressure. The problem is against the wrong type of guy who can take the early onslaught deal with the pressure begin to work his way into the contest he comes unstuck.

The majorfault for Amir and Roach was not adapting those strengths the fast start which I think is one of Amir's strengths. With a longer gameplan and an understanding of basic fundamentals. His chin is his weakness but doesnt have to necessarily be a debilitating one.
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:54 AM   #15
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Default Re: Did winning the WBA title come to early in Khan's rehabilitation period under Roa

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkillspayBills View Post
I like this thread .

Johnny, Basically to cut a long story short, Marlow's asking did the title stop him developing. Did Khan turn off, did it bring back the arrogance that lead to his demise in the M.E.N against Prescott.

Sometimes people who find success rest on laurels, did Khan take the title and the wins as 'job done'?. When you win a title you go from the hunter to the hunted. Khan kinda skipped his levels very quickly, i remember us being shocked at him moving to 140lbs for the title shot.

Roach devised a fairly simple gameplan and style for Khan, but it never really evolved. Do we blame Roach?. Khan? or Both?. But the did the title maybe take away from the learning. Did Khan miss out on maybe one or two more bouts where he could of kept that learning feeling. Because now after being a two title holder at 140lbs he's heading back to learning bouts and confidence boosters.
Spot on Mand.
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