If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

[Skittlez]

Originally Posted by HerolGee

reid ws actually pretty good. not great or HOF but he was very capable. Had he the right mental approach he could have unified and kept the title at least for a few defences. Consider that he arguably won the title three times (versus Zaghes, easily versus Ottke and the title he later held). I'd say that he had the talent to maringally eclipse Eubank, Calzaghe and Ottke, if only he'd had the mind to stick it out. Kessler would have been his stopping point and the likely end of his projected SMW reign - I dont think Reid had it to go on long after that in the way Ottke and Calzaghe did.

I'd put him ahead of Calzaghe on raw ability, he just didnt follow through, like James Toney (though Toney has more raw skill than Robin).

I wonder if thats why Bailey keeps repeating that Reid was 'a great win for Zaghes' - it was in reality an appallingly close escape in which he was frequently outgunned. But that Zaghes managed to match a damned good fighter that night is perhaps what Bailey means (in Baileyspeak lol) when he says it was a great win. Reid was good, no doubt about it.

Reid was good and had a lot of talent. That WAS a good win from Calzaghe.

[HerolGee]

Originally Posted by Skittlez

Reid was good and had a lot of talent. That WAS a good win from Calzaghe.

Theres two sides to that. For me, a good win is a sizeable score advantage. This was more of a pyrrhic victory, because it was barely a victory. But yeah you can argue becuase he met his match with Reid, it was the highest rung that Calzaghe had acheived up to that point in his career (until Kessler came along).

[HerolGee]

Originally Posted by general zod

He had potential, but that could be said about a number of fighters. His loss to 40 year old Malinga was a complete disaster

yeah he screwed up bigtime. no longevity at all.

Reid's loss to Calzaghe is sandwiched between two losses to journeyman, hence making the win not much better than journeyman level.

maybe I overrate him a bit, but I still contend that, even though SMW was a minnow division at the time, he was within a couple of points (versus Calzaghe and Ottke) of being a three time champion at SMW.

Bailey also thinks a win over Mger madjwde9sdn is a good win

we need a Bailey translator, to be fair. Just change the word he uses for an almost opposite word, and it becomes sense ' Mger is a poor win' - problem solved|!

[Skittlez]

Originally Posted by HerolGee

Theres two sides to that. For me, a good win is a sizeable score advantage. This was more of a pyrrhic victory, because it was barely a victory. But yeah you can argue becuase he met his match with Reid, it was the highest rung that Calzaghe had acheived up to that point in his career (until Kessler came along).

What you mean he 'met his match' with REid? Reid was never as good as Calzaghe was. It was a tough fight, but that doesn't mean Reid is Calzaghe's match.

That version of Reid will give a lot of fighters trouble...

[general zod]

Originally Posted by Skittlez

Reid was good and had a lot of talent. That WAS a good win from Calzaghe.

No.

Malinga ud loss
Calzaghe sd loss
Branco ud loss

[general zod]

Originally Posted by HerolGee

yeah he screwed up bigtime. no longevity at all.

Reid had 'character flaws', which clearly limited his career. He was basically in sleepwalking mode against Malinga. He used every dirty tactic under the sun against Lacy. it looked to like like he was going to mess up the Calzaghe fight, until he found out that he could land at will with the right hook.
He was a lot like Zab Judah and Clottley, talented, but with character flaws.

Originally Posted by HerolGee

maybe I overrate him a bit, but I still contend that, even though SMW was a minnow division at the time, he was within a couple of points (versus Calzaghe and Ottke) of being a three time champion at SMW.

I thought Calzaghe nicked it by about 1-2 points. I had Reid clearly winning the Ottke fight.

Originally Posted by HerolGee

we need a Bailey translator, to be fair. Just change the word he uses for an almost opposite word, and it becomes sense ' Mger is a poor win' - problem solved|!

[general zod]

Originally Posted by HerolGee

Theres two sides to that. For me, a good win is a sizeable score advantage. This was more of a pyrrhic victory, because it was barely a victory. But yeah you can argue becuase he met his match with Reid, it was the highest rung that Calzaghe had acheived up to that point in his career (until Kessler came along).

Calzaghe said himself that he didn't want to fight anymore good fighters after that fight, which is why his opposition dropped after that. The Lacy fight was the first opponent he faced who was ranked within the ring top ten and on a winning streak. History has not been kind to the Lacy win, but I would place it above the Reid win.

[RazorHandz]

Coming out of retirement would be a stupid move.

[HerolGee]

Originally Posted by Skittlez

What you mean he 'met his match' with REid? Reid was never as good as Calzaghe was. It was a tough fight, but that doesn't mean Reid is Calzaghe's match.

That version of Reid will give a lot of fighters trouble...

When you say 'Robin was never as good as Calzaghe', that flies in the face of the fact thatRobin had Calzaghes number that night. The decision could have gone either way, because he WAS as good as JC that night.

He was as good as JC for at least that night, or to put it another way JC was as good as Robin Reid that night. The scoreline doesnt lie, there was virtually nil difference between their performances.

[craney91]

N-O. And I'm one of Calzaghe's biggest fans.

He looses this fight in his prime. I don't think anybody beats Andre Ward. Definitely not now, there is nobody out there to even offer a challenge at the weight, he has beat them all, who else is coming up who can challenge within the next 2 years?

DeGale?
Groves?
Eubank Jr?

MAYBE DeGale if he pulls his finger out, maybe Eubank Jr, but I think its way to early. Ward is years ahead mentally, physically, and ability wise. Unless one fighter starts shocking a few people and improving rapidlly, I think Ward wipes the floor with everybody.

Martinez?
Canelo?

But I'm talking about AT the weight.

[assasin]

Originally Posted by craney91

N-O. And I'm one of Calzaghe's biggest fans.

He looses this fight in his prime. I don't think anybody beats Andre Ward. Definitely not now, there is nobody out there to even offer a challenge at the weight, he has beat them all, who else is coming up who can challenge within the next 2 years?

DeGale?
Groves?
Eubank Jr?

MAYBE DeGale if he pulls his finger out, maybe Eubank Jr, but I think its way to early. Ward is years ahead mentally, physically, and ability wise. Unless one fighter starts shocking a few people and improving rapidlly, I think Ward wipes the floor with everybody.

Martinez?
Canelo?

But I'm talking about AT the weight.

nobody beats andre ward? a past prime bike nearly did it. he'd been out of the ring for a long time as well. i had that 115-113 to ward.

ward is fighting guys that have no inside game what so ever. that's all he's doing. i wasn't surprised the dawson fight happened because he had the style that ward likes to fight. the other one was pavlik... and hay ho, it looks like he's fighting him next.

predictable.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by general zod

No.

Malinga ud loss
Calzaghe sd loss
Branco ud loss

But also looked to have Ottke win
Nardiello away win
Cherifi win
Magee undefeated win


Also we know you never watched the Malinga fight, if you did you would know Reid wasnt beat up, very little happend. It was an odd fight.
Branco, he was a world class SMW who beat prime G Johnson and became WBA LHW champ

Some polls had Reid rated above Calzaghe and Calzaghe went in injured where he couldnt do much sparring was being troubled before the fight with people putting glass in his either food or drink, forget which and yet went out and beat a top SMW.

Reid wouldnt fight Calzaghe when champ, so Calzaghe fought Reid when he had everything to lose and nothing to gain.

Ask yourself this. How could you not score rounds 2, 3, 4,7, 8 (Reid also had a point deduction in that round), 12 to Calzaghe? Remember Reid had a point deducted also.

I thought like 2 judges that Calzaghe was a clear winner and except for McCrory who scored a draw and later seemed to agree all of the other studio guest scored wide for Calzaghe including Mcguigan and Eubank. I also think damaged handed (damaged his hand in round 4) Calzaghe won and felt he won rounds 1, 9 (Reid did land the punch of the night in round 9 though) & 11.
I thought Calzaghe won 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 12 and Reid had a point deducted.

Good away win for Calzaghe

[bailey]

Everyone has forgotten how much Ward didnt want to fight Bute and ducked him.
Ward wouldnt want to fight Calzaghe, he is too used to fighting his leftovers and leftovers of

[bailey]

Originally Posted by general zod

He had potential, but that could be said about a number of fighters. His loss to 40 year old Malinga was a complete disaster

I can agree with that

Reid's loss to Calzaghe is sandwiched between two losses to journeyman, hence making the win not much better than journeyman level.

Bailey also thinks a win over Mger madjwde9sdn is a good win

Mkrtchyan beat undefeated 26-0 European champ Chanet, was only beaten clearly by world champs or fighters who became world champs and remember Chanet who Mkrtchyan beat undefeated Tsypko who many felt beat Lacy and the same Tsypko who has a win over Magee who is challenging Kessler next for the vacant WBA regular title. Theres the form line in amongst some nothing wins

[general zod]

Originally Posted by bailey

Also we know you never watched the Malinga fight, if you did you would know Reid wasnt beat up, very little happend. It was an odd fight.

Reid vs Malinga (past prime)

Power: Reid
Handspeed: Reid
Footspeed: Reid

Jab: Malinga
Defense: Malinga
Offense: Malinga

Boxing IQ: Malinga
Reaction to adversity: Malinga

outcome:
Malinga took the center of the ring, while Reid circled around him. Reid would try his telegraphed rush attacks, which Malinga would either block or slip. In return when Malinga took the initiative he would disrupt Reid's rhythm with his jab and follow through with his right cross. Reid had no answer to Malinga's jab, he also could not land on Malinga either.

The Sky commentators after scoring the early rounds a draw started to give rounds to Malinga. he judges did the same thing which is why Malinga won by a large margin. After that fight Reid's face was marked from the constant punches he got caught with. He even said he got beat up in the post fight interview

Conclusion: Of course I haven't seen the fight