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View Poll Results: If you were Joe Calzaghe will you come out of retirement to fight Ward
Yes 78 19.40%
no 324 80.60%
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:22 PM   #271
JCC_is_overated
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

If i felt like i could still beat ward at this stage in my life then yes i would comeback. If i felt like ward would beat the **** out of me and take my precious 0 away from my record then i would absolutely not come back.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:39 PM   #272
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC_is_overated View Post
If i felt like i could still beat ward at this stage in my life then yes i would comeback. If i felt like ward would beat the **** out of me and take my precious 0 away from my record then i would absolutely not come back.
So black and white you must have blinkers on.............
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:16 PM   #273
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
Pre-fight agenda's are meaningless. Whats happened in the ring is the only factor to be remembered.
Half of the reason Froch beat Bute was the fact Bute was not all that to begin with.
Horrible ****ogy and reasoning.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:21 PM   #274
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
Lacy was a hypejob and is a nobody today. I dont rate that win, neither do a lot of people.
You are pretty dumb. Jeff Lacy was not a 'hypejob' neither was Lucian Bute as you loved to indicate.

If you compare Gennady's current resume to Lacy's resume prior to the calzaghe fight, there is no comparison. Lacy dominates GGG'S resume. So say Sergio Martinez KO'S Gennady next year, is that a '**** win'?

You can't JUST base the quality of a win on what the victim went on to achieve. You must look at it without hindsight. Lacy going into the Calzaghe fight was a favorite and hence a great win.

You can look at Samuel Peter and say the best thing he did was beat up a former MW.. So is Wladimir's win over him 'not a good win'? Well going into that 2005 fight, Wladimir was a under dog and a three time KO Victim, Peter was a KO Artist. So Wladimir beating Peter at the time was a very very good win. That win can not just 'diminish' because Peter ended up doing nothing...
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:46 AM   #275
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAJR View Post
He beat Benn, gave Eubank two tough fights and performed well against McCallum while McCallum gave one of his best performances ever. Given that I think it is hard to justify eliminating him as one of the top fighters of his era in favor of Graham or Littles considering he did no worse than either of them in his professional career.
He beat an amateurish version of Benn, who fought a really stupid fight and ended up getting koed by a jab. SMW Benn was the best version of Benn imo.

A lot of mediocre opponents also did quite well against Eubank, like Thornton(postman), Close And Schommer(stockbroker) and I thought Eubank lost all three of those fights.

It was obvious from round 2 that Watson was waaay out of his depth against McCallum and that fight was a mismatch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAJR View Post
Robin Reid in 1997 when Reid was undefeated and the WBC World Champion and Nigel Benn.
I really don't understand why people here keep referring to Reid as a top fighter

Reid:
Notable wins: Nardiello

Notable losses: Malinga (40 years old), Branco, Calzaghe, Lacy

He beat no one worth mentioning and lost to journeymen like Malinga and Branco. Having a WBC belt doesn't mean much, especially when he became a champion by beating a mediocre opponent like Nardeillo

The Benn he got a win over was basically shot. Benn was never the same after the McClellan fight and would go 0-3 in 06, including the Malinga loss.

So his best wins are not that good and he lost to a ton of ordinary fighters
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAJR View Post
Rocchigiani was also an undefeated former world champion when Eubank went to Rocchigiani's backyard to fight him, and would go on to capture a world title in another weight class. Its still an impressive win for Eubank over a dangerous opponent proven at the world level.
Being undefeated only means something if you have beaten world class opponents. The only win on Rochhigiani's resume worth mentioning at the time he faced Eubank was Malinga, who was a fringe contender. Rochigiani was not proven at world class level either, he beat a waay past prime Nunn by a controversial split decision and that's really about it.
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:57 AM   #276
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAJR View Post
Collins had given McCallum, R. Johnson and Kalambey difficult fights only to be out-pointed. He beat Eubank and Benn and certainly did not have any less success than Graham or Littles.
Collins was tough but his overall boxing form was pretty poor, which is why he got beat by world class guys like McCallum, Kalambay and R.Johnson.
They consistently slipped his wide telegraphed punches and landed counters. He was lucky that none of those guys were real bangers.

That version of Benn he beat was shot. Benn had a shadow on his brain after the McClellan fight, which had further deteriorated into a brain legion by the time of the Collins fights.
Source: War, baby: A history of violence

Eubank wasn't world class at smw either, which is why he got outboxed by a fringe contender(Schommer), who had only fought twice in the previous three years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAJR View Post
Calzaghe was a rising Super Middleweight and Eubank was on decline. Not every fighter reaching the end of his career would get in the ring with a younger, hungry fighter looking to take on the world - Calzaghe certainly didn't when Dawson was on the rise - so regardless of how green Calzaghe may have been I think his fight with Eubank still has to count against the idea of Eubank avoiding people.
Eubank always wanted to get the smw Wbo belt back but he knew he couldn't beat Collins so he reluctantly moved up. When he was offered the opportunity to fight a green contender, who hadn't beat anyone worth mentiong he took it. Calzaghe himself was not that good back then either. After struggling with Reid he said himself that he did not want to fight any good fighters:

Quote:
"I'm not chasing after Roy Jones. Be honest, Roy Jones is a good fighter and I don't want tough fights, I just want big money. "I just want to make sure I never have to work again."
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A damning confession which explains why his resume looks the way it does
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAJR View Post
What didn't? Didn't Thompson hold a World title? Or are you going with the "WBO is worth jack" philosophy? In my opinion if you reach the world level, if you capture a world title or have numerous fights for a world title or with world champions then you are world class, but I will add that there are tiers in the world class category which, in a grading system would be A+, A, A-, B+, B and B-, and Thompson would be a B-level.
There are now 5 belts in any given division: Super wba, wba, wbc, ibf and WBo. Getting a belt these days doesn't mean much seeing as how there are so many floating around. Who you beat to get the belt has to be taken into account as well. Thompson never beat anyone worth mentioning, outside of Eubank, and lost to ordinary fighters. I can not see how he can be classed as world class because he picked up a sanctioning body belt. Plenty of medicore fighters have had sanctioning body belts.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:05 AM   #277
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittlez View Post
What do you think of the Jeff Lacy win?

Didn't you say it was a **** win?
Lacy

Notable wins:
Sheika
Reid

Debatable wins:
Tyspko
Manfredo
Mendoza (robbery)

Notable losses:
Calzaghe
Jones
Taylor

When your best win is Robin Reid then you are in real trouble
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:22 AM   #278
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAJR View Post
Graham was, undoubtedly, a excellent boxer, one of the best ever technically, I dont deny that and have never made any attempt to deny that. But to include him in a list of top fighters without including Benn, Watson or Collins when they had a similar or greater level of success than he did is doing them a disservice. Graham was a World Class fighters but there is no way he can be put above Benn or Eubank as a top fighter of his era when he never beat another top fighter of his era.

Graham easily has to be one of the best fighters that have come out of Britain over the last 20 years. The only difference between him and Eubank is that he took the sort of fights that Eubank never would of went anywhere near

Kalambay:
He really should have a win over Kalambay, who was a top tier fighter

McCallum:
A very close fight, which easily could have gone Graham's way. Graham boxed and brawled with McCallum on an equal footing. Who out of the British guys could of done any better?

Benn and Eubank refused to fight him
McCallum beat Watson and Collins

Jackson:
Most likely would of beaten all the British guys. Jackson wanted to fight McCallum again, but according to Jackson McCallum turned him down. Eubank would of went nowhere near him. He vacated his belt when McClellan became his mandatory.

Every time he challenged for a belt a top tier fighter stood in his way. Benn, Calzaghe and Eubank had a much easier path to a title shot. Benn beat Galvano. Eubank was basically given the wbo smw belt and Calzaghe fought a Eubank who took the fight on 11 days notice.

According to Graham he tried to get fights with McCallum II, Hagler, Eubank, Collins and Watson and they all turned him down. So he couldn't even get the opportunities to take his career to the next level. His just as good as those guys, if not better imo. He just was not as fortunate as them and that's the REAL difference between them.

Last edited by general zod; 10-20-2012 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:29 AM   #279
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAJR View Post
So I am not convinced by Littles' amateur record that he was a great pro-boxer when his only win of note is against Liles - a fighter who out-classed him three times in the amateurs and who would outclassed him again in the pros in the rematch and in his pro-career in general.
How many fighters would of outclassed Liles at smw? A question we can not answer because most of those guys ducked him

Littles
As I said before he was a decorated amateur who beat Jones (a top fighter even then) and only came up short against Liles, who was beating everyone back then. The only person Liles has a negative record against is Jones. Liles is officially 1-2 against him, many people believe he should of won their last fight as well. There is a reason he couldn't get a fight with Jones as a pro

Liles I:
Either way when Littles met Liles as a pro they both had a similar amount of pro and amateur experience so I class that as a solid win for Littles. I also class that as the only legit loss that Liles has a smw. The Mitchell loss was garbage.

After that fight Liles go on to fight a journeyman, Steve Littles, to get a belt but Littles has to face a p4p fighter

Toney:
Littles ends up getting stopped in four rounds. Which titlist would of done better than Littles?

Benn and Eubank refused to take the fight

Liles II
After that fight he goes on the get a rematch with Liles and gets stopped in 3 rounds. Which titlist would of done better?

Benn and Jones turned him down. Calzaghe and Eubank would of went nowhere near him
Collins?A fight was agreed to then later fell through

There was talk of Littles facing the other belt holders but it never worked out for whatever reasons.

He was a damned good fighter. Solid combinations. His hand speed was second only to Jones at smw. Good jab and upper body movement. The only difference between him and the other guys is he took on the champions that most of them refused to fight because they knew they would lose. They have more successful careers not just because they beat better fighters, but because they chose to avoid certain fighters as well. I'm sure Littles would of become a world champion if he faced Eubank, Galvano or Collins instead of Liles and Toney.

Last edited by general zod; 10-20-2012 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:47 AM   #280
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

No.
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:45 PM   #281
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Electric Guru,

Quote:
1 - it will have allowed for Calzaghe's hands to have healed and be in the best shape they've been in since he was fingering filthy ****s behind Enzo's back garden shed as a 16 year old.
Haha! Brilliant!
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:06 PM   #282
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey View Post
He said the Eubank win got his attention.
Calzaghe did call out Jones to no avail. Others who didnt call out got a chance like WBO MW champ O Grant, but Calzaghe was high risk low reward
How many times do you need it explaining to you, before it sinks in?

Joe said he wanted big fights against the likes of Roy in 2001, and then stayed at 168 in England and fought Brewer and Jiminez.

That was really going to get him big fights wasn't it?

Why do you keep mentioning Grant?

Grant was happy to fight Roy in America.

Grant was happy to fight Roy at 175.

Grant was happy with the purse.

Joe didn't want to go to America.

He didn't want to fight at 175, because his WBO strap was so precious to him.

He wanted the Crown Jewels, so he'd have never have fought for Grant's purse.

To summarise:

Otis Grant = Easy fight to make.

Joe Calzaghe = Just about impossible to make.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND??

Joe could have found himself with the same opportunities as Grant, and he also could have found himself a mandatory challenger like Woods, Frazier etc.

But he wouldn't move up, and he was apparently scared of flying.

How long are you going to persist with this nonsense?

It's got nothing to do with high risk, low reward.

A 168 guy from Wales, who nobody outside of Europe knows, who has a belt that's worth nothing, who The Ring magazine doesn't even have ratings for, was not relevant to the worlds best fighter, who was the unified 175 champ!

Roy didn't duck him.

He DISMISSED him!

Regards, Loudon.

Last edited by Loudon; 10-20-2012 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:58 PM   #283
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Calzaghe and Ward are great fighters that stand on the borders of different eras. Move on...
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:01 AM   #284
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Loudon being pwned part 1
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
How many times do you need it explaining to you, before it sinks in?
Asking you the same question troll
Quote:
Joe said he wanted big fights against the likes of Roy in 2001, and then stayed at 168 in England and fought Brewer and Jiminez.

That was really going to get him big fights wasn't it?
Forgetting that by the end of that year he had beaten
Eubank who had been a SMW champ
Reid who had been a SMW champ
Woodhall who had been a SMW champ
Veit a future SMW champ
Sheika top 10 SMW who had just beaten prime G Johnson
D Starie top 10 rated who had just beaten undefeated C Woods
All top 10 rated
Gimenez was a 2 time former title challenger who had never been stopped.

Brewer was in 02 and a another fighter who had been a SMW champ who was top 10 rated

Quote:
Why do you keep mentioning Grant?
Because he had a far lesser pedigree was a WBO champ only at MW not even SMW let alone LHW with less defenses and fought at a far lesser level.

If you cant see the difference there Loudon you either have an agenda or are plain dumb
Quote:
Grant was happy to fight Roy in America.
So was Calzaghe. Same as Grant if the fight with Jones is available. It was for Grant not Calzaghe
Quote:
Grant was happy to fight Roy at 175. So was Calzaghe. Same as Grant if the fight with Jones is available. It was for Grant not Calzaghe
Quote:
Grant was happy with the purse.
What was Calzaghe offered? What was Grant offered?

Problem is Loudon, is that you have no proof of anything where as said before, I have given links and video proof which smashes you to bits
Quote:
Joe didn't want to go to America.
Possibly not, but as you know agreed to go for Hopkins in 02 only for Hopkins to pull out.
Forget that
Quote:
He didn't want to fight at 175, because his WBO strap was so precious to him.
He agreed to fight at LHW, if the Jones fight was there, but also Jones agreed to fight at SMW and then backed out.
I have shown you the link for that and have it handy if you really need to be schooled again.

Fact is when both Jones and Hopkins did agree to fight him, he did it for what they wanted which was 50/50, in their country and at the weight they wanted. Thats when they agreed. Which also blows you out the water again
Quote:
He wanted the Crown Jewels, so he'd have never have fought for Grant's purse.
Once again, you cant say what Grants purse was can you . So this quote of yours is as pointless as everything else you wrote because you have no details of anything.
Wasnt Jones wanting 10 mil and Hopkins 6 mil wanting the crown jewels
Quote:
To summarise:
Which is all you have done as you have no facts, and which has been the reason you get schooled so badly

Quote:
Otis Grant = Easy fight to make.
Correction = Easy fight to win
Quote:
Joe Calzaghe = Just about impossible to make.
What was the offer made to Calzaghe.
What details do you have of impossible to make?
Jones himself said he didnt want to know and admitted Calzaghe was chasing him. They both admitted it, so you are summarising and because of that getting owned
Quote:
DO YOU UNDERSTAND??
I do.
But dont think you do
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jVrFZDxZS0"]You Tube[/ame]
6:45 in. "For 2 years Calzaghe has chased pound for pound number one Roy Jones, but to no avail".
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qeXpJlLNzs&feature=player_embedded"]You Tube[/ame]
#!
also:
*THIS VIDEO IS ON YOUTUBE: 'Roy Jones jr looks ahead to Calzaghe'*

Steve Bunce: When did Joe first pop up in a conversation?

Roy Jones: When he beat Chris Eubank I started watching him then.

Steve Bunce: 1997

Roy Jones: I knew it then...but he then kinda backed down on the opponents he was fighting so I RELEASED THE IDEA OF IT [fighting Joe].

So Jones admits he was aware of Joe early on, but wasn't interested in fighting him.


BBC, 21st November 2001.
"It's all very well being the best in the world, but you need big names for big fights," he reflects.

A fight with the Eric Lucas, the WBC champion, is a possibility, but unification fights are notoriously hard and expensive to arrange.

As is a bout with Roy Jones.

"To be honest I'm getting quite fed up with it," Calzaghe said.

A bout against the undisputed light heavyweight champion has been the subject of ongoing speculation.

"It's difficult because of the different networks involved. He's with HBO and I'm with Showtime - that's a massive obstacle in itself.

"Secondly, you've got to ask yourself whether Roy Jones would want to fight me.
"At the moment he picks his own opponents, fights the easiest guys he can and gets a lot of money for beating them.

"I'm dangerous and I can take the mega money out of his pocket. Why would he want to fight me?


Jones himself made the statement that he did not go fight him because it was too risky be it in the UK or states...he stated that on National TV while commentating on Calzaghe/Hopkins those words exactly get a copy of the fight and find out yourself....If Jones said it himself then any argument you have is out the window because Jones stated nothing about why should I have...I was ranked #1 he was ranked # whatever he said...IT WAS TOO RISKY FOR ME AT THAT TIME ESPECIALLY IF I HAD TO GO TO THE UK... he added nothing in on it....


roy jones the man who fought Richard Frazier the part time cop and then bragged about his greatness afterward....

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Former four-division champion Roy Jones Jr, speaking with The Sunday Times, responded to Joe Calzaghe's recent claim of chasing Jones for several years and being brushed aside. Calzaghe spoke with The Sunday Mirror and appeared to have some newfound hostility when Jones' name came up.

"I spent five or six years chasing Jones and he acted like he never even knew my name," said Calzaghe. "Suddenly, I beat Hopkins in Vegas and Jones wants to be my neighbor - it's ridiculous. If a fight with Jones made sense from a cash point of view, then it could happen, but he is notorious for asking for too much money."

Jones says that he viewed Calzaghe as a possible opponent several years ago, but at the time he saw no reason to travel to Wales to chase the fight. Now that Calzaghe is the bigger star, Jones is willing to make the fight anywhere.

“I saw Joe as a potential opponent a long time ago,” Jones said. “But I had my eyes on higher things, such as winning the heavyweight title, so it was nothing against Joe, I love everything about him. He’s a fun guy, an entertaining guy, a good person. We took some pictures together with his sons after the fight on Saturday and we’ve talked on the phone. But boxing is business. When I was the best pound-for-pound boxer in the world it wouldn’t have been smart for me to go and fight Joe.

”You don’t go to somebody else when you’re the best, they must come to you, so I wouldn’t take the risk, and why would I? Why would I meet that challenge when I’m already the best? Why would I go to your country and give you a chance to allow the powers that be to take a close decision and give it to you?"

Jones says a fight with Calzaghe is the best fight in boxing, even better than a possible rematch between Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather Jr, scheduled for September.

“But right now this is the best fight out there, better than the Oscar De La Hoya-Floyd Mayweather rematch because we all know what the outcome of that fight is going to be – another win for Floyd. You don’t know the outcome of this fight, however, so it’s a fight people are going to want to see. There’s suspense, and that’s what makes for a big fight," Jones says.

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28:52 mark
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBHwB9_dJ9s"]You Tube[/ame]
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:02 AM   #285
bailey
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Loudon being pwned part 2
Quote:
Joe could have found himself with the same opportunities as Grant, and he also could have found himself a mandatory challenger like Woods, Frazier etc.
Frazier , yeah if only Calzaghe had of done as much as him
Quote:
But he wouldn't move up, and he was apparently scared of flying.
But was still willing
Quote:
How long are you going to persist with this nonsense?
Ive given proof you havent
Quote:
It's got nothing to do with high risk, low reward.
From Jones himself when talking Calzaghe
so I wouldn’t take the risk, and why would I? Why would I meet that challenge when I’m already the best?
Quote:
A 168 guy from Wales, who nobody outside of Europe knows,
Jones knew of him, as did Hopkins

“I saw Joe as a potential opponent a long time ago,” Jones said. “But I had my eyes on higher things, such as winning the heavyweight title, so it was nothing against Joe

Quote:
who has a belt that's worth nothing,
Belts dont make the fighters Loudon, its the other way around.
Look at what W Klitschko has defended and Barrera in his unfiiction with Morales
Quote:
who The Ring magazine doesn't even have ratings for,
Whats the Ring got to with it?
Its a magazine where anyone just has an opinion and isnt even based on results, they have said that themselves. America were doing little at SMW so they didnt focus on it. If you look at Boxing Monthly or Boxing News its a different story.
You are obviously like a gullable child who thinks because the Ring calls itself the bible it must be gospel .
Try watching boxing with the sound down in future Loudon, I dont want the commentary swaying you
Quote:
was not relevant to the worlds best fighter, who was the unified 175 champ!
Well I agree Jones was not interested because he wanted the HW title. Nothing wrong with that
Quote:
Roy didn't duck him.
He chose not to fight him, high risk low reward and no HW title
Quote:
He DISMISSED him!
Like he did so many challenges. Probably because they didnt have HW titles, like Eubank, Benn, Michalczewski, Collins, Erdei, Tiozzo, Maske and of course Calzaghe
Quote:
Regards, badly pwned Loudon
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