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View Poll Results: If you were Joe Calzaghe will you come out of retirement to fight Ward
Yes 78 19.40%
no 324 80.60%
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:20 AM   #316
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
All true, but that's not relevant to the points we're making.

Bailey really believes that Joe chased Roy, and was desperate for the fight, when clearly he wasn't.

Regards, Loudon.
I wasn't arguing that point with you. I was just pointing out that right now I feel Joe's resume is stronger.

Regarding Joe and Roy I always had it in my mind that he chased Roy from 2004 onwards. That's when he was eager to fight Jones I thought.

Even kinder regards
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:41 AM   #317
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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I wasn't arguing that point with you. I was just pointing out that right now I feel Joe's resume is stronger.

Regarding Joe and Roy I always had it in my mind that he chased Roy from 2004 onwards. That's when he was eager to fight Jones I thought.

Even kinder regards
Fair enough mate.

I agree, Joe's resume is slightly stronger at the moment.

Shame Joe wasn't around for the Super Six.

No he never chased Roy from 2004. 2004 is when he started to dismiss him as a threat, after Tarver and Johnson had knocked him out.

He was asked in 2004, about a potential fight against Tarver at 175. He said he wasn't interested in a fight with Tarver, because in his opinion, Tarver had done nothing apart from beating a shot Roy Jones.

Regards, Loudon.
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:51 AM   #318
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Fair enough mate.

I agree, Joe's resume is slightly stronger at the moment.

Shame Joe wasn't around for the Super Six.

No he never chased Roy from 2004. 2004 is when he started to dismiss him as a threat, after Tarver and Johnson had knocked him out.

He was asked in 2004, about a potential fight against Tarver at 175. He said he wasn't interested in a fight with Tarver, because in his opinion, Tarver had done nothing apart from beating a shot Roy Jones.

Regards, Loudon.
Okay thanks for clearing that up about 2004



I agree with Joe that Tarver hadn't done enough to get Joe to come up to 175. The only two fighters then were Bhop and RJJ. Shame the 2002 Bhop vs Calzaghe fight never happened although I feel the 2008 fight was an accurate representation of how it would have went. ( I scored it 115-112 Calzaghe)
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:42 PM   #319
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

[quote=moneypaysbills;14056226]

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Okay thanks for clearing that up about 2004

No problem.

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I agree with Joe that Tarver hadn't done enough to get Joe to come up to 175. The only two fighters then were Bhop and RJJ. Shame the 2002 Bhop vs Calzaghe fight never happened although I feel the 2008 fight was an accurate representation of how it would have went. ( I scored it 115-112 Calzaghe)
I agree to an extent, but at the time, Joe was saying he wanted big fights, and he was more than happy to go up to 175. He said in his opinion, he'd take his speed up, and it would be easier to make weight.

So the obvious guy out there was Tarver. But as soon has his name was mentioned, he dismissed him straight away. Which was odd, because he remained at 168 (where it was getting harder and harder to make weight comfortably) to fight the likes of Salem, Veit and Ashira, before Lacy.

I scored their fight as a draw. I think that would have been the fairest result. I think it was Bernard's quality over Joe's quantity. I hated Bernard's tactics to gain a breather though, and I'm glad in a way that someone won, because I wouldn't have wanted to see a rematch.

An earlier fight would of been very interesting. Joe's hands were better, but I think he became more of a complete fighter towards the end of his career. In 2002 I think Bernard could have fought better against Joe's workrate, without getting as tired. I think it'd have been a close fight, but I could see Bernard just edging it.

Regards, Loudon.
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:56 PM   #320
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by moneypaysbills View Post
Yeah, but Ward's best win of Kessler was a worse Kessler than Joe fought and Ward has no-one else near that level apart from Froch who lost to Kessler whereas Calzaghe has Hopkins, Bika (saying Calaghe was a better fighter than Ward) Mitchell and Lacy as well as others.
Why are you talking about Ward's resume for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneypaysbills View Post
Pavlik was exposed by BHop who Calzaghe beat so doesn't matter
Pavlik back then was seen as a threat. Jones was considered shot. The fact that Hopkins went on to beat Pavlik does not change the fact that Calzaghe opted for the much easier fight. He could of fought a ton of guys like Darius M, Dawson, Tarver, G.Johnson , Pavlik, Woods or even Jones around 00, but he always opted for much easier fights.
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:50 PM   #321
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by general zod View Post
Why are you talking about Ward's resume for?

Pavlik back then was seen as a threat. Jones was considered shot. The fact that Hopkins went on to beat Pavlik does not change the fact that Calzaghe opted for the much easier fight. He could of fought a ton of guys like Darius M, Dawson, Tarver, G.Johnson , Pavlik, Woods or even Jones around 00, but he always opted for much easier fights.
Ignoring the fact that it was Pavlik who turned down offers to fight Calzaghe??

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Old 10-23-2012, 03:05 PM   #322
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

If he wants to lose to Ward, sure.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:57 PM   #323
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

hell no.............for what?



it wouldnt even generate big money
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:01 PM   #324
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

If i was Joe i will see if i still throw 1000 slaps for 12 rounds.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:08 PM   #325
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Ignoring the fact that it was Pavlik who turned down offers to fight Calzaghe??

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He is ignoring it because it isnt a fact, but a claim, which it clearly says in the article.

There is no allusion to fact at all concerning Pavlik turning down Joe.

He is 100% right to ignore it.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:30 PM   #326
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

HI Loudon.

Good posts from you. Really nice to read your opinions on a variety of topics.

I want to hear your opinions(or any knowledgeable poster) on these subjects:



This is the problem I have with certain people bashing Calzaghe and double standarding with Jones. First off I like to say that I'm not a delusional Calzaghe fan and I understand as do most people with an above average IQ that Prime for Prime Roy Jones Jr should be able to beat Joe Calzaghe 8 times out of 10.

Prime Roy is just such an amazing fighter with shocking reflexes,counters,underrated boxing skills, good power and speed that even the best version of Joe will be in big trouble.

Now that's out of the way, this is the issue with bashing Cazlaghe's 'home stays and resume'. Joe Calzaghe is someone caught between eras. He was caught right between the Roy,Benn,Eubank,Jackson,Mccellan,Nunn,Toney era and the Ward-Froch-Bute (current era).

If Joe was born a few years later or a few years earlier he would have fought them all. A Prime Calzaghe today won't be 'ducking and avoiding' and 'home staying' a easy resume, he will be fighting Froch-Bute-Ward. If Prime Calzaghe was in the Jones-Toney era he will be going to America and fighting Toney,Nunn,Mccellan.
For those of you saying Joe had a 'weak resume' how can he possibly have the resume you guys respect? He had nobody to fight. He was towards the end of his career when the likes of Ward,Froch,Dawson,Pavlik emerged and it will be highly unfair to hold it against him in not taking those fights.

Now am I saying that Joe could have beaten Nunn,Jackson,Benn,Jones,Toney,Ward,Froch etc? I think he could have beaten the vast majority of them, he just never had the chance.


To say that Joe avoided Froch is a big joke as well. Carl Froch was fighting for rent money all the way up until his early 30's. His first big money fight was after he turned 30. Joe was well on his way out and fighting a nobody at the time of your twilight is pretty absurd.


Roy Jones Jr on the other hand was actually stuck in the middle of a great MW-SMW Era and fought at best 1 prime fighter. (Toney) The excuses for Roy should be minimal to none. It shouldn't matter that it wasn't his 'fault' that it wasn't 'meant to be' he didn't fight all those other MW-SMW's around his time. He didn't, and that's the bottom line. He COULD have beaten them all, but could have and would have is two different things.

Joe Calzaghe cleaned out his era(regardless of how strong or weak it was) Jones Jr did not. That is it.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:33 PM   #327
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

The metamorphosis has started already.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:55 PM   #328
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by HerolGee View Post
He is ignoring it because it isnt a fact, but a claim, which it clearly says in the article.

There is no allusion to fact at all concerning Pavlik turning down Joe.

He is 100% right to ignore it.

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Old 10-23-2012, 07:45 PM   #329
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by moneypaysbills View Post
Okay thanks for clearing that up about 2004



I agree with Joe that Tarver hadn't done enough to get Joe to come up to 175. The only two fighters then were Bhop and RJJ. Shame the 2002 Bhop vs Calzaghe fight never happened although I feel the 2008 fight was an accurate representation of how it would have went. ( I scored it 115-112 Calzaghe)

I read an interesting article posted by Zod, that states Joe doesn't fancy other southpaws....

Think that might have played into not wanting to move up and fight a long lanky southpaw with plenty of power and counter punching ability? The man who lost a close fight, and knocked out the man Joe respected, and would only fight for the crown jewels?

Tarver had certainly proven himself as a big enough name, After the KO of Roy, he was shot into the boxing mainstream instantly. More than enough to get Joe to come up, he was a bigger name than Joe outside of Europe.

Not saying Joe would have lost, but I find it strange that he didn't think Tarver did enough, then reading the article about not fancying other southpaws, makes me wonder.

Did Calzaghe ever test himself against another elite southpaw?
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:06 AM   #330
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by Mind Reader View Post
I read an interesting article posted by Zod, that states Joe doesn't fancy other southpaws....

Think that might have played into not wanting to move up and fight a long lanky southpaw with plenty of power and counter punching ability? The man who lost a close fight, and knocked out the man Joe respected, and would only fight for the crown jewels?

Tarver had certainly proven himself as a big enough name, After the KO of Roy, he was shot into the boxing mainstream instantly. More than enough to get Joe to come up, he was a bigger name than Joe outside of Europe.

Not saying Joe would have lost, but I find it strange that he didn't think Tarver did enough, then reading the article about not fancying other southpaws, makes me wonder.

Did Calzaghe ever test himself against another elite southpaw?
Hi mate,

I agree with your post. I too have read Zod's post regarding Joe not facing any southpaws. Tarver would of been a very dangerous fight for him. Like I've mentioned to moneypaysbills, in 2004, Joe said he was looking for big money fights, and he was happy to move up to 175.

When he said that, the obvious name on everyone's lips was Tarver. But then he instantly dismissed him, by saying that he didn't rate him, because he'd done nothing apart from beat a past it Roy Jones.

We also know that he messed Glen Johnson around. Then 4 years later, he went on to fight Roy in 2008, after he'd made the Tarver comment.

That's why this thread is ridicuous. It's very enjoyable, and I love debating, but in my opinion, Joe wouldn't have gone anyway near Ward 6 or 7 years ago, never mind coming out of retirement now.

Tarver and Johnson would of been hard fights, but he didn't want to take the risk. He stayed and fought Salem and Ashira instead.

Joe was always going to do something, but in the end he never followed any of it through.

Regards, Loudon.
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