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View Poll Results: If you were Joe Calzaghe will you come out of retirement to fight Ward
Yes 78 19.40%
no 324 80.60%
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:17 AM   #361
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by general zod View Post
(Unfortunately Im too busy to post up the links, I will do that later.)

Who confirms these offers? ******? Pavlik? Arum?

Calzaghe said himself he wanted to fight the winner of the Pavlik-Taylor II rematch. Talks started after Calzaghe beat Hopkins, but then came to a halt after Pavlik's destruction of Gary Lockett, who was also trained by Joe's father. It was then that Calzaghe claimed that Pavlik had turned him down twice. He claimed that Pavlik had turned him down before he beat Taylor I. Pavlik would of only been a mw prospect at that point and he claimed that Pavlik had turned him down after he beat Taylor. Which is stupid considering the fact that there was a rematch clause in their contract.

Calzaghe then went on to claim that Shot Jones was relevant again and fought him instead Like I said before he always chose the path of least resistance.
Before I start retorting I want to see some links for Calzaghe saying he wanted to fight winner of Taylor-Pavlik II. I know you said you'll do them later so that's fair enough.

As an aside I think Calzaghe would have beaten Pavlik anyway.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:23 AM   #362
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by general zod View Post
(Unfortunately Im too busy to post up the links, I will do that later.)
Don't bother, it won't be anything I haven't seen before

Quote:
Who confirms these offers? ******? Pavlik? Arum?

Calzaghe said himself he wanted to fight the winner of the Pavlik-Taylor II rematch. Talks started after Calzaghe beat Hopkins, but then came to a halt after Pavlik's destruction of Gary Lockett, who was also trained by Joe's father. It was then that Calzaghe claimed that Pavlik had turned him down twice. He claimed that Pavlik had turned him down before he beat Taylor I. Pavlik would of only been a mw prospect at that point and he claimed that Pavlik had turned him down after he beat Taylor. Which is stupid considering the fact that there was a rematch clause in their contract.

Why does it need confirmation? Joe was deep into negotiations with Jones when any sort of offer was made. Pavlik had two opportunities to fight Joe, and turned them down. So when you say Joe wouldn't fight Pavlik, that's not right. Pavlik had his chance and turned it down. Same with Jerman Taylor who was offered $4m for the fight, and responded demanding $10m. Offers made to Pavlik and Taylor, two top fighters at the time.



Quote:
Calzaghe then went on to claim that Shot Jones was relevant again and fought him instead Like I said before he always chose the path of least resistance.

It was a cash out fight to retire on, not the first or last time a fighter has done it. It wasn't just Joe stating Jones was relevant, the Ring Magazine had him ranked at #6, and plenty of fighters and analysts picked Jones to win.

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Though I agree the win doesn't mean much as Jones was clearly well past it

But facing Kessler and Hopkins was the path of least resistance? Getting in with Lacy? Facing Eubank when a complete novice? I could go on but won't bother. It's hard to take you seriously when you're so disingenuous all the time. If you want a serious debate, come back with a serious post
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:27 AM   #363
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Don't bother, it won't be anything I haven't seen before




Why does it need confirmation? Joe was deep into negotiations with Jones when any sort of offer was made. Pavlik had two opportunities to fight Joe, and turned them down. So when you say Joe wouldn't fight Pavlik, that's not right. Pavlik had his chance and turned it down. Same with Jerman Taylor who was offered $4m for the fight, and responded demanding $10m. Offers made to Pavlik and Taylor, two top fighters at the time.






It was a cash out fight to retire on, not the first or last time a fighter has done it. It wasn't just Joe stating Jones was relevant, the Ring Magazine had him ranked at #6, and plenty of fighters and analysts picked Jones to win.

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Though I agree the win doesn't mean much as Jones was clearly well past it

But facing Kessler and Hopkins was the path of least resistance? Getting in with Lacy? Facing Eubank when a complete novice? I could go on but won't bother. It's hard to take you seriously when you're so disingenuous all the time. If you want a serious debate, come back with a serious post
Wow! just wow!

What a post, the last time I saw General Zod get dismantled like this was when Superman sent him back into the phantom zone. Yet another top post from a top ESB poster.

Salutations

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Old 10-25-2012, 08:31 AM   #364
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moneypaysbills View Post
Before I start retorting I want to see some links for Calzaghe saying he wanted to fight winner of Taylor-Pavlik II. I know you said you'll do them later so that's fair enough.

As an aside I think Calzaghe would have beaten Pavlik anyway.

Hi moneypaysbills, let me help you out

Quote:
I think alot of Calzaghe **** smokers need to be remembered of these quotes...

“Jermain Taylor is number one for me,” said Calzaghe. “He beat Hopkins, he’s young, undefeated, a massive test.”

“If I fight Taylor like I did versus Lacy, nobody can beat me,” he said. “Nothing’s certain, but I’m confident I’ll win. Jermain Taylor and me would be a megafight.”

Calzaghe wanted Taylor when he was undefeated

Taylor wanted $10m to face Calzaghe, which was a ridiculous figure

Quote:

In a recent interview with UK media giant BBC Sport , Taylor said that he wants more than double to face Calzaghe in London.

"If Joe and Frank want me that much, make me an offer for US$10million and I will show up and bring him a gift to his front door," Taylor told BBC Sport.
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Article Link - [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
This is a legal waiver. By copying and using the material from this article, you agree to give full credit to ***********.com or provide a link to the original article.

We know that Pavlik turned down two offers to face Joe between 2006-2007

Pavlik was way too predictable for Joe, someone with Joe's ring IQ would have found his rhythm, adjusted and boxed rings around Pavlik to win a wide decision.


Quote:
Originally Posted by moneypaysbills View Post
Wow! just wow!

What a post, the last time I saw General Zod get dismantled like this was when Superman sent him back into the phantom zone. Yet another top post from a top ESB poster.

Salutations




Thanks mate, I always enjoy reading your posts
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:40 AM   #365
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

The fact that Calzaghe was after someone like Taylor who at the time looked a real prospect after twice beating Hopkins only to have another ridiculous figure thrown at him is a parallel to Bhop in 2002 wouldn't you say. Calzaghe makes a top level offer and they ask for double.

This coupled with the fact that Pavlik twice turned down Joe suggests that a lot of this Joe ducked Pavlik talk is not quite founded in fact. The fact still remains that Joe was fully capable of beating the rather one dimensional Pavlik who has a career encompassing Jermain Taylor and a neverending army of sanitation workers and hobos in the Win column. With Hopkins and ***y Sergio in the Loss column? This shows that when he steps to fighters of any real quality he folds. A fight with Calzaghe would have been no different.

As an aside, your quote also has Taylor saying he'll face him in London, is that just Taylor not knowing Calzaghe is based in Wales or was it scheduled for London?
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:52 AM   #366
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by moneypaysbills View Post
The fact that Calzaghe was after someone like Taylor who at the time looked a real prospect after twice beating Hopkins only to have another ridiculous figure thrown at him is a parallel to Bhop in 2002 wouldn't you say. Calzaghe makes a top level offer and they ask for double.

This coupled with the fact that Pavlik twice turned down Joe suggests that a lot of this Joe ducked Pavlik talk is not quite founded in fact. The fact still remains that Joe was fully capable of beating the rather one dimensional Pavlik who has a career encompassing Jermain Taylor and a neverending army of sanitation workers and hobos in the Win column. With Hopkins and ***y Sergio in the Loss column? This shows that when he steps to fighters of any real quality he folds. A fight with Calzaghe would have been no different.

As an aside, your quote also has Taylor saying he'll face him in London, is that just Taylor not knowing Calzaghe is based in Wales or was it scheduled for London?

There you go, Calzaghe gets criticised for not facing these guys when they wouldn't get into the ring with him. Often people don't know the facts, and just like to cast accusations.

Pavlik's wins over Taylor were very good, he ruined JT. If he accepted the offer to face Joe, like Lacy he would have been dismantled and people would be on here typing up essays about how Pavlik was no good in the first place. That's the reality of the sport.

I think Taylor means Wales, as Joe didn't host big fights in London

Joe even invited Pavlik over for the Kessler fight, so they could open negotiations

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Now that Kelly has conquered his division, I would like to invite him to Cardiff for my fight against Mikkel Kessler, which will also serve as my formal coronation as king of the super middleweights. If Kelly is a true champion in search of new territories to conquer, he need look no further than Millennium Stadium on November 3, where the crown heads can meet to discuss the terms of battle.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:59 AM   #367
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
There you go, Calzaghe gets criticised for not facing these guys when they wouldn't get into the ring with him. Often people don't know the facts, and just like to cast accusations.

Pavlik's wins over Taylor were very good, he ruined JT. If he accepted the offer to face Joe, like Lacy he would have been dismantled and people would be on here typing up essays about how Pavlik was no good in the first place. That's the reality of the sport.

I think Taylor means Wales, as Joe didn't host big fights in London

Joe even invited Pavlik over for the Kessler fight, so they could open negotiations


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I also agree that Pavlik's wins over Taylor were good, but they weren't and still aren't enough to warrant the idea that he could beat Calzaghe or wa in such a position that he had Calzaghe running scared. With Taylor's style made for Pavlik it was show cased that styles make fights whereby after losing to Taylor twice, Hopkins dismantled Pavlik in a manner similar to Calzaghe-Lacy.

Also the fact that you have produced yet another link showing that Calzaghe wanted to fight Pavlik means that General Zod is going to need a video link of Calzaghe being pumped full of sodium pentathol admitting he ducked Pavlik in order to have any real basis to argue otherwise with any real conviction
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:10 AM   #368
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by moneypaysbills View Post
I also agree that Pavlik's wins over Taylor were good, but they weren't and still aren't enough to warrant the idea that he could beat Calzaghe or wa in such a position that he had Calzaghe running scared. With Taylor's style made for Pavlik it was show cased that styles make fights whereby after losing to Taylor twice, Hopkins dismantled Pavlik in a manner similar to Calzaghe-Lacy.

Hopkins-Pavlik is one of my favourite individual performances of all time. It was an absolute masterclass from Hopkins, alongside his win over Trinidad. Stunning performances that cement Bernard's legend as an ATG.

Calzaghe would have beaten both Taylor and Pavlik no doubt about it.

But this is it, if a fight doesn't get made for whatever reason, then you'll have plethora of troglodytes like general zod bashing away at their keyboards accusing the fighters they don't like as the reason the fight never happened. That's the nature of the sport

By the way money, how do you think a fight between Hopkins and Sergio would have played out at MW?



Quote:
Also the fact that you have produced yet another link showing that Calzaghe wanted to fight Pavlik means that General Zod is going to need a video link of Calzaghe being pumped full of sodium pentathol admitting he ducked Pavlik in order to have any real basis to argue otherwise with any real conviction
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:29 AM   #369
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Hopkins-Pavlik is one of my favourite individual performances of all time. It was an absolute masterclass from Hopkins, alongside his win over Trinidad. Stunning performances that cement Bernard's legend as an ATG.

Calzaghe would have beaten both Taylor and Pavlik no doubt about it.

But this is it, if a fight doesn't get made for whatever reason, then you'll have plethora of troglodytes like general zod bashing away at their keyboards accusing the fighters they don't like as the reason the fight never happened. That's the nature of the sport

By the way money, how do you think a fight between Hopkins and Sergio would have played out at MW?





I agree with you about Hopkins performance against Pavlik. I really like Bhop apart from his racist comments before fighting Joe Calzaghe. It was a top level performance from him and exposed Pavlik so bad this happened

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Old 10-25-2012, 09:36 AM   #370
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by moneypaysbills View Post
I agree with you about Hopkins performance against Pavlik. I really like Bhop apart from his racist comments before fighting Joe Calzaghe. It was a top level performance from him and exposed Pavlik so bad this happened

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I agree that Hopkins' comments were tasteless, but I think he was just trying to sell the fight. Hopkins is a master of mind games
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:23 AM   #371
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

If I was Cal I wouldn't. He's not been active in such a long time, why take the risk and tarnish is undefeated record?
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:34 PM   #372
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

[quote=Mind Reader;14066082]I agree...

Quote:
I don't buy into Tarver not doing enough in Calzaghe's eyes to make the jump to LHW...

He just dethroned the better part of 10 years P4P King, by KO... That isn't doing enough??? please! After reading the article presented by Zod, which states Joe doesn't fancy southpaws, I honestly think Calzaghe thought Tarver would have been to much a risk for that 0 that he was protecting. Calzahge wanted to go to LHW for years, It is clear he finally did it when it was relatively safe...
It's obvious he saw him as a threat. But why did he make the comments in the first place? Tarver was only suggested to Joe, when Joe said he was looking to move up for big fights in 2004. It was obvious after he'd made the comment, that Tarver's name was going to get mentioned. But then he just dismissed him and ended up staying at 168.

Fighting Roy was nothing short of a joke, after he'd dismissed him in 2004, 2007, and early in 2008. Why did he stay at 168, when he had to starve himself to make weight? The bigger fights were there at 175, but he never went til 2008.

Quote:
Joe Calzaghe calculated risks very closely, which is fine... My favorite fighter in Roy Jones was notorious for it, and i acknowledge that, boxing is a business, where a loss can certainly hurt your cash flow.. But it is funny how the biggest Jones haters, are all Calzaghe lovers, that accuse Roy of ducking a long list of fighters...
The double standards are a joke. You can say Roy was cautious, but at the end of the day, he's a four weight world champ, who went to heavy. So he wasn't that cautious. A cautious guy doesn't quickly drop from heavy back to light heavy at nearly 35, after having 50 fights. A cautious guy doesn't rematch Tarver straight away, and then Johnson just three months later.

Every month on here, we get a long list of fighters that Roy was apparently scared of. But Joe could have been in the mix with Roy, Tarver, Harding, DM, Woods, Gonzalez, Johnson etc, yet he remained at 168 to unify the division after 9 years. At 34, Frank was having him fight Peter Manfredo to gain U.S. exposure, because of his reluctance to go to the U.S. earlier on in his career.

Also, they criticise Roy's resume, when it put's Joe's to shame.

Quote:

Roy was very risk vs. reward minded, but he took way more risks than Calzaghe. Which makes the Calzaghe lovers hypocritical... Bailey likes to use "form lines" for why Calzaghe doesn't have to fight someone.. But then accuses Roy of ducking someone when the "form line" leads do ass whippings by Roy. Styles make fights, "form lines" mean shit, anyone who knows boxing knows this.
Roy took way more risks. Roy moves upto heavyweight embarrasses Ruiz, and doesn't get an ounce of credit. Ruiz is labelled a feather fisted sloth, who was absolute garbage, who anybody could have beaten etc. Meanwhile Joe's starving himself to hit 168, and wouldn't even move up to 175. People like Bailey are a joke. If you say to him, Joe could have fought Tarver, he comes back with, well he beat Hopkins who beat Tarver. Ha! That's ok then. They all jump on Roy, but when Roy was beating Ruiz for a portion of the Heavyweight title, and becomming the 1st guy in a 106 years to do it, Joe was fighting Byron Mitchell.


Quote:
I am no Calzaghe hater, as a matter of fact, I actually appreciate what he did as a fighter and thought he had a special talent. I just don't like the double standards, which seems to be the case when judging what Andre Ward has done..
I respect him as a fighter, and appreciate his skills, but I hate all the bullshit lies he's told over the years, such as "I've been chasing Roy for 5 or 6 years!" I hate people that lie.

Quote:
I still have Calzaghe as the GOAT SMW... But Andre is doing more things a lot faster than Calzaghe did.. How will Andre look at 36? well its hard to say, Joe looked phenomenal for 36, and had great longevity.
I've no problem with Joe being recognised as the greatest SMW of all time, but that's only based on achievements. How would his career have played out had Roy not moved to 175 in 1996? Joe did look great at 36, but It might be a toss up between them, because I'm expecting Andre to move up to 175 within the next 18 months. Froch will probably have retired by then, and unless Bute comes back with a bang, there's nothing left at 168.

Quote:
I just disagree with getting defensive and shitting on what Andre has done, or anyone for that matter.
I don't know why that happens. Guys like Bailey will be hoping Andre loses whenever he fights.


Regards, Loudon.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:39 PM   #373
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
You can big anybody up using boxrec stats.
What Boxrec stats?
Quote:
The point is, Kessler is a good fighter, but going into the fight with Joe he hadn't had any great wins.
Did he have better ones going into Ward then to make it such a good win?
Quote:
I thought one of his titles was vacant against Cummins?
Completely wrong again, and here lies the problem that you keep getting all of your facts wrong and then trying to argue
Quote:
Mundine, Beyer, Andrade and Lucas were good fighters, but they can't be classed as great wins, and that's the point he was making.
Mundine a 2 time SMW champ Kessler beat between reigns
Beyer a 3 time SMW champ Kessler beat when champ
Andrade who clearly beat Steiglitz who A Abraham could only get a debateable decision over and Andrade tha many felt KOd Bute
Siaca a SMW champ when Kessler beat him
Lucas world rated

Now look at the curren top 10 and you will see that all of those have a better SMW resume than over half of the current top 10.

When Ward fought Kessler he was rusty suffering double vision coming in off of fighting Perdermo. Now that isnt good.

Old Calzaghe past best near end of career beats undefeated Kessler.
Young Ward fights exposed unwell version and you wet your pants


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Where's part 4 of my pawning?

You'll have to try a lot harder than last time!
Every mistake of yours I corrected.
You got yourself pwned (Cummings )
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:43 PM   #374
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Yeah mate since Team Elite had gone for a bit these Zealots have been running riot
Yeah the great part is they deny the facts, make things up and then think its true.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:43 PM   #375
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Wow! just wow!

What a post, the last time I saw General Zod get dismantled like this was when Superman sent him back into the phantom zone. Yet another top post from a top ESB poster.

Salutations

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