If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

[dinovelvet]

Bute/Froch was made before Dawson called out Ward. Inability to take a Bute fight due to a broken hand isn't a duck. Ward taking a fight with Dawson instead of Bute is absolute bullshit

[bailey]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Loudon

Haha! He was 9 weeks from his 40th Birthday. Joe's only 40 now, and people are saying he'd be crazy to come back at this stage. Roy was nearly 40, and Joe had dismissed him three times, but according to you it's a good win. Had Roy adjusted to the weight when Green knocked him out in under three mins? Stop embarrassing yourself! Even Joe himself knows the win was worthless. He himself said that the fight would be pointless, just a year before they actually fought. So why are you trying to argue, when Joe himself knows that it was worthless.

Jones was 39, Calzaghe 36. Hardly a massive difference in age.
Jones was back adjusted at LHW.
The Green fight was at CW and nothing to do with LHW. Also do you not recall that there was a glove query where Jones was looking to take action. Do you not recall Greens 1st round KO of Briggs with a jab after Briggs had given Adamek 2 tough close fights.
After that loss Jones fought Hopkins who became LHW champ again and put Hopkins down, where Hopkins couldnt beat the count, only for him to say the punch was on the back of the head and be given time.
Lets not forget that between the Calzaghe and Green fight, Jones looked very good in beating Lacy and getting rid of Sheika in 5 one sided rounds, the same Sheika who later fought world rated Diaconu and gave him a tough points fight. Explain . Yet Jones beat him easy

I haven't answered the question, BECAUSE whatever I say, you'll argue against it. But why are you arguing anyway? I agree with you, that it wasn't a great win. I think it's a good win. Do you not think it was a good win for Toney? If not, please tell me why? Thanks.

I notice you duck questions and then as me questions when you wont answer mine. You do this as im not a ducker.
In answer to the question you have asked me. I would call it a fair win only. Jirov hadnt beaten anyone of note as a pro.

I don't advocate cheating in any way. But my personal opinion is, if they'd have been anything in it, his critics, the media, and all of the Organisations he represented, would have jumped on him. He represented a lot of people. HBO, Nike, the WBA, WBC, IBF, etc, he fought in places like New York, under their watch. So you're not telling me that it was all swept under the carpet, and everyone was corrupt and pretended it didn't happen? I don't believe that.

Believe what you want but look at how there were questions about Berto and Peterson yet they are free to box now, or look at how Morales was let to box or Chavez jnr with the queries that have come up there.
Read Zods thread which he wants to edit away
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Anybody with an ounce of intelligence, knows that he wouldn't have fought Roy for less than a million.

Probably not if Roy wanted 10mil, but as said so many times You dont know that, so stop trying to argue what YOU DONT KNOW

Again it was a poor example to use. I understand exactly what you're saying. But we're talking about Joe Calzaghe fighting the Worlds best fighter. So the circumstances are completely different.

So you say we are talking about Calzaghe but earlier said he was an unknown

If you were talking about a journeyman boxer, then yes it would be a good example.

What was Calzaghe being paid then?

But again, we're talking about Joe moving up and fighting one of the greatest ever fighters. Ok?

How much did lesser fighter O Grant get and how much did Jones get defending against him, and remember Jones wanted 10 mil. Do you know what Calzaghe was being paid, because if Jones wanted 10mil and Calzaghe was getting (and I dont know, this is only an example before it confuses you again) 700k, then a million wouldnt sound unreasonable would it? To vacate a title. Still We dont know and cant say as YOU DONT KNOW

[bailey]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Loudon

Part 2.

I've read your link, and what does it say exactly? It says Frank was going to New York for discussions, and that's it. Roy's representatives probably also had brief discussions with Tarver's team aswell, around the same time.

Once again, Joe was just a possibility, until Murad had a definite answer on Ruiz. As soon Roy got the green light, Joe was dismissed. But in your world, that was a duck right?

No I have always said I dont blame Jones for going after a HW title. That hasnt been in question. Thought you claim to be clever? The point was Calzaghe did pursue a fight with Jones

His choices were,

To fight for a version of the heavyweight title.

To fight Tarver in a grudge fight, at his weight.

To fight Joe, who was relatively unknown, who fought at a different weight.

Have YOU had a bang on the head? We have agreed on this a while ago. Nobody blames Jones for going to HW, point was Calzaghe pursued the fight

You SHOW ME where Roy confirms that Joe was chasing him for 5 or 6 years. He said "I know he's wanted to fight me for a while" That doesn't PROVE that Joe chased him for 5 or 6 years!

So now Roy hasnt said the words 5/6 years but says a while...
Loudon that is pathetic. Jones admitted Calzaghe wanted to face him and i showed you links from 00, 01 and 02. Enough said

All he did, was mention Roy's name. What did he do after? Did he move up, or go to America? NO! He continued to fight at 168 in Britain.

How many more times Loudon.
He called him out and made an offer.
He was not going to lose his title and earning potential for a fight that might not happen. Jones had to agree to fight him which he didnt. Same as Hopkins didnt.
Once again, why lose a belt and money unless it is definate?
Stop ducking that question

My answer is, you need to go and see your GP.

So you couldnt answer any question

In 2001, he was trying to get a fight with DM, and was under pressure from fans to try and make the Hopkins rematch. He was the unified 175 champ.

Didnt fight either of them then

Do you seriously think, that Roy at the time, would have given a seconds thought to Joe's comments after he'd beaten McIntyre?

Read the links. Jones was talking of fighting him before that when Calzaghe was getting rid of Sheika and Woodhall, and again when Jones was beating Woods, so I would guess as that fight was between those that Jones would have taken notice

The fact that Joe didn't fight at 175, or in America, speakes volumes! That fact shows me just how serious he was. He was going up in 2001, but he didn't get there. In 2004, he himself said, I know I have to move up. Barry McGuigan in the same year, said he's got to move up at this point. He didn't get there til 2008!

Once again
He was not going to lose his title and earning potential for a fight that might not happen. Jones had to agree to fight him which he didnt. Same as Hopkins didnt.
Once again, why lose a belt and money unless it is definate?
Stop ducking that question
Whats McGuigan got to do with it? Are you that influenced by commentators? Suggest you start turning the volume down when you watch boxing in future, or else you will have identical scorecards as who ever is talking

Haha! It'd got Roy's favourite icing on. If Collins and Joe had've known the recipe, Roy might have fought them both for free. He loves his cake!

That's IRRELEVANT!

No it isnt. You were saying Calzaghe was unknown and not worthy but you dont think its relevant that some of Jones opponents were even lesser known
Double standards Loudon

For the millionth time, beating Brewer and Jiminez, at a weight divison below, wasn't going to get people interested in a Roy Jones fight at 175. If you can't see that, you're stupid!

Yet O Grant at MW beating R Rhode and E R Sena does get Jones interested.
Brewer was more known than any of those names and as said there was also Mitchell, though you like to forget that, and other names Jones knew like Eubank, Woodhall, Sheika etc
But sure O Grant beating R Rhodes did the trick. Got it

A ridiculous comparison!

Not really. Jones didnt fight the champ

Joe was relatively unknown, and fought in a different weight class.

As said, so was O Grant

Roy was considered the best fighter on the planet, and was the unified 175 champ!

Picking up vacated title opponents from DM

DM would have got his opportunity, but he wouldn't go to America for the fight.

DM was champ and making big money in Germany, bigger than what could be made in America with bigger crowds.
Jones out rightly wouldnt go to Germany

Why?

Because they are different countries.

You really don't get it do you.

think its you that doesnt.

He needed to put groundwork in like Ricky, or he needed DM's belt to tempt Roy into the fight.

We're going around in circles, like the vicious circle Joe found himself in.

Roy wasn't interested in 2002, because Joe wouldn't have been a big fight.


HOWEVER,

if Joe had have gone to the U.S. earlier, and made a name for himself, and put in good performances, then they might have have been interest in the fight. If fans had've wanted to have seen the fight, if there'd been a big demand, it would have been a more attractive proposition for Roy and HBO.

Likewise if, and it's a big if, but If, Joe could have taken DM's belt, then Roy would have wanted to have fought Joe to have all of the belts. Roy wanted to fight DM, he just wasn't prepared to go to Germany because he said things like "I don't think a knockout would guarantee me a win over there."

If Joe had've been an attractive proposition to Roy, HBO, and the general American public, then things would have been different.

Joe wanted to fight Roy for big money, which was fair enough, but he wasn't prepared to do the groundwork like Ricky Hatton.

I get what you are trying to say, but you dont answer
He was not going to lose his title and earning potential for a fight that might not happen. Jones had to agree to fight him which he didnt. Same as Hopkins didnt.
Once again, why lose a belt and money unless it is definate?
Stop ducking that question

So to summarize, what you're saying is, if Joe had've been guaranteed really good money, he'd have been willing to go to the U.S. and fight Roy.

I cant say what the money would be and once again YOU DONT KNOW.
He wanted the Jones fight or Hopkins fight to be guaranteed, nothing wrong with that as anything else he would have been losing money.
What cant you see in that?

HOWEVER, he was never going to be guaranteed to get a shot at Roy for good money.

HOW DO YOU KNOW? YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE MONEY SITUATION IF IT WAS DOABLE OR NOT. YOU DONT KNOW

BECAUSE, he wasn't known enough at the time. He was stuck in a vicious circle, like the one I'm in with you.

But O Grant, R Frazier, C Woods etc were known enough

If he'd have gone to America in 1999, when De Bella had opened the door for him, things may have turned out very different. But as you know, at the time of De Bella's offer, he said he wasn't chasing Roy, or wanting tough fights

1999 he hadnt been a world champ that long and may have said that, but soon changed his mind as in 00, 01 and 02 he was calling him out. If he did make that comment, I expect there was more to it, as he spent alot of time as proven in the links trying to get Jones in the ring. Also he fought abroad on the Tyson undercard on what I think was HBO but dont know that for sure and called out Jones. Not just at the end of that fight but alot with media before, saying Jones would be found wanting against him. That was mocking, then put in a top performance and called Jones out again.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Bailey are you claiming Hatton didn't want a Mayweather fight? A fight everybody above and bellow welter strives for. Thats just crazy. You must of forgot Hatton was 100% self convinced he could beat Floyd. Why would he not want an opportunity to beat Floyd and earn the most money of his career?

And you would have to be in complete denial or just stupid to think the crown jewels wasn't a metaphor for a large sum of money.

Is Pacquiao striing for it?
Hatton didnt call Floyd out. that was the point and he made a comment about action and said he will leave it at that. I brought up the fight evebn and showed it wasnt Hatton that called out Mayweather but the commentator. That was the point. I suggest you stop jumping in between conversations when you dont know what has been said and getting involved in things you dont know.
Run along kid, before you get your usual spanking

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

What a load of shit. Joe said this Joe said that. He didn't face them till 2008. The proof of the pudding is written in the history books.

True, with the links it shows how they avoided him until they couldnt any longer

Originally Posted by Loudon

What can anybody say about this?

There is literally no argument than can be made, against what you've posted.

Joe trying to backtrack on what he'd originally said about Roy, was cringeworthy.

"He's back! He's had three great wins!" I don't know how he said it with a straight face.

Embarrassing!

Regards, Loudon.

Jones had just handled tito easily, carrying him to the end. The same Tito that many call Hopkins big win

[Loudon]

Part 2.

It did make sense, fighting Jones earned Joe $10m. I'm not sure how much he would have gotten to fight Tarver or Johnson, but we can agree it would have been substantially less!

I'm not sure how much he'd have got either.

I don't think he embarrassed himself, he was selling a fight. Roy and his camp were saying Roy was sharp again and fighting well. Roy was still a good fighter in 2008, a long way off his best, but still a good fighter

I respect that he was trying to sell the fight, and it would have been ok, had he not dismissed him earlier on in the same year. But really, there was no going back after what he'd said in Feb/March.

Then you'd got Steve Bunce after Roy's fight with Trinidad saying "Well, Roy's got to do a lot more than that to get Joe in the ring."

Fast forward to November and he's saying the same as Joe "Roy's looking sharp, and he's back etc."

Fair enough, I know it's his job, but it was cringeworthy.

Even If Joe had've said "Roy's past his peak, but he's still very dangerous etc" That would have been ok. But he actually said in 2007 that "a fight with Roy would be pointless!" and then in 2008 he said "He'd be disappointed if Roy was to be his last fight."

When you've made comments like that, there's just no turning back.

There's nothing you could say, to undo that, apart from being brutally honest, and publicly admitting that you'd cashed out. Other than that, you'd just embarrass yourself.

I think Joe definitely embarrassed himself.

Coach Merk had to do everything he could to try and get Roy in the right mindset.

I think Joe relished the payday he got from Jones. Pavlik doesn't have a fanbase to compare to Roy's. He would not have gotten $10m to fight Kelly Pavlik, nobody ever has or will. Look at the interest Calzaghe-Jones generated, compared to Hopkins-Pavlik. Hopkins was far more known in the US than Calzaghe, yet people talked about Jones-Calzaghe.

Well my opinion is, Kelly didn't have Roy's fanbase, but the PPV numbers would have been much much higher for that fight. It all depends on what Joe's percentage would have been. But I think he'd have made more from Pavlik, even if a big promoter had been involved.

I don't think that Roy's fight with Joe created huge interest. They had problems selling the tickets, and the PPV numbers were poor. Maybe old fans were sentimental towards Roy, and hoped for one last great performance?

A pavlik fight definitely would have been a better fight.

Joe didn't get any respect for beating Roy, because it'd been done 4 years earlier.

If Joe had've hammered Pavlik like Hopkins, he'd have got huge respect, and would have been better though of.

ok mate we'll agree to disagree here

No problem.

why would Ward be seen as the bigger threat? He's a solid, awkward fighter who works his way inside, and tries to maul opponents on the inside, but at the same time he's feather fisted.

I think just because he's a better fighter than Jeff.

It depends what you class as a threat?

There's more chance of being hurt by Jeff, because Jeff had a fantastic, dangerous hook, that Andre doesn't have.

But I'm referring to the threat of losing.

I suppose it's like Nigel Benn, and James Toney for Roy.

Nigel Benn was so dangerous!

But I think Roy would have seen James as the biggest threat, because he was the better fighter.

It's only my opinion of course, but I think Joe would have had his zero threatened much more by Andre than Jeff.

Jeff was tough, but he's not a boxer, he's a fighter. Andre's not a fighter, he's a boxer. Joe could outbox Jeff, but could he outbox Andre? Possibly?

I'm certain that Joe would have feared Andre more.

I respect your opinion though.

Lacy was a KO artist, who was tearing through the division. Here's a guy who could put your lights out with one shot, being built up as the SMW Tyson

As above, he was a powerhouse, but he couldn't match Joe for skill, like what Andre could.

I think a Calzaghe would have figured Ward out and once he settles into the fight, and took him apart in a good fight. The Hopkins that Joe beat was better than Ward. If you look at Ward's best wins - Kessler and Froch, two guys who are flat footed and lack the athletic ability and ring IQ of a Calzaghe.

Fair enough, again I respect your opinion. Maybe we'll have a better idea, as Andre's career progresses.

As said, we'll have to agree to disagree

No problem.

I see, but in one thread I remember you stating that despite Joe being a great fighter, Jones would have never fought him in 2002 because he had no fanbase to speak of.

Dawson is good, but has no fanbase to speak of.

Yet you state Joe should have fought him. That seems unfair in the context

Fair point, but the circumstances are a little different.

Chad hasn't got a big fanbase, but everyone knows who he his. HBO, the casual fans etc, all know who Chad is.

Nobody in America knew much about Joe.

In 2002, nobody would have wanted to see that fight.

I think had Joe have decided to prolong his career, I think fans would have been interested in a Dawson fight.

But again, I get your point.


Thanks for taking the time to post up those links regarding Ward and Bute. I really appreciate that.

I wasn't aware of any of that.

I though it was Bute that wasn't interested. I'm surprised that Ward didn't push for the fight.

If Carl beats Bute again, where does that leave Ward?

I don't think he'd want to unify with Carl.

Surely he'd have to move up to 175?


Thanks for your great reply.

Just reply back whenever you can. There's no rush at all.


Regards, Loudon.

[Loudon]

Originally Posted by NewsBoy

Carl Froch

"Joe cALZAGHE is the greatest SMW of all times'

"OF ALL TIMES'

Based just on achievements, then yes.


Regards, Loudon.

[Loudon]

Bailey,

Jones had just handled tito easily, carrying him to the end. The same Tito that many call Hopkins big win.

Oh my word!

THE SAME TITO????

Ha!

He hadn't fought for what? Three years?

They had an agreed catchweight of 170 pounds, and Tito couldn't even make it. He was 172.

How can I debate with you, when you're being ridiculous?


Regards, Loudon.

[dinovelvet]

Pacquiao doesn't call anybody out. Arum is in control of him. He doesn't need to go after big fights. Your comparisons are useless. If Hatton didn't want a fight with Mayweather after he beat Castillo, then how the hell did he end up in the ring with him 6 months later?
You're arguments for everything are driven by what you want to believe. You've been on the receiving end of a factual, historical beatdown for days.

[dinovelvet]

Pacquiao doesn't call anybody out. Arum is in control of him. He doesn't need to go after big fights. Your comparisons are useless. If Hatton didn't want a fight with Mayweather after he beat Castillo, then how the hell did he end up in the ring with him 6 months later?
You're arguments for everything are driven by what you want to believe. You've been on the receiving end of a factual, historical beatdown for days.

[David UK]

Originally Posted by Big Left

Calgazhe would lose badly, he is 40 years old and out of shape. He is never going to be what he was in his prime again, not even half as good as the well past prime version of him that beat B-Hop so throughly.

Joe was WELL past his prime when he fought Hopkins

[Loudon]

Bailey,

Jones was 39, Calzaghe 36. Hardly a massive difference in age.
Jones was back adjusted at LHW.
The Green fight was at CW and nothing to do with LHW. Also do you not recall that there was a glove query where Jones was looking to take action. Do you not recall Greens 1st round KO of Briggs with a jab after Briggs had given Adamek 2 tough close fights.
After that loss Jones fought Hopkins who became LHW champ again and put Hopkins down, where Hopkins couldnt beat the count, only for him to say the punch was on the back of the head and be given time.
Lets not forget that between the Calzaghe and Green fight, Jones looked very good in beating Lacy and getting rid of Sheika in 5 one sided rounds, the same Sheika who later fought world rated Diaconu and gave him a tough points fight. Explain . Yet Jones beat him easy

He was 9 weeks from being 40. The age isn't the issue anyway. It was nothing to do with being adjusted back to the weight. He suffered back to back knockouts 4 years before he fought Joe.

You're trying to argue, when Joe himself doesn't rate the win!

The Green glove debate, also wasn't the issue.

The issue was, Roy didn't see the initial right hand from Green, which wasn't even fast. His reflexes were gone.

Lacy was a washed up fighter.

Sheika was never elite.

I notice you duck questions and then as me questions when you wont answer mine. You do this as im not a ducker.
In answer to the question you have asked me. I would call it a fair win only. Jirov hadnt beaten anyone of note as a pro.

I ducked the question to avoid an other argument. But there's no need to argue on this topic anyway. Go and read my previous posts. I've agreed with you.

Believe what you want but look at how there were questions about Berto and Peterson yet they are free to box now, or look at how Morales was let to box or Chavez jnr with the queries that have come up there.
Read Zods thread which he wants to edit away
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Fair enough, we'll leave it there.

Probably not if Roy wanted 10mil, but as said so many times You dont know that, so stop trying to argue what YOU DONT KNOW

Right. Let's leave it then.

What was Calzaghe being paid then?

More than the 50K in your example.

How much did lesser fighter O Grant get and how much did Jones get defending against him, and remember Jones wanted 10 mil. Do you know what Calzaghe was being paid, because if Jones wanted 10mil and Calzaghe was getting (and I dont know, this is only an example before it confuses you again) 700k, then a million wouldnt sound unreasonable would it? To vacate a title. Still We dont know and cant say as YOU DONT KNOW.

Once again, you're not allowing for circumstances.

[dan4579]

Im sure that this has been covered elsewhere in this thread, but I seriously doubt that Joe could beat Ward at his his very best. Why the hell would he want to come out and be humiliated by him now? Doesnt make any sense. He played it perfectly. Built up his record. Gained credibility by beating two top notch Europeans at the time. Took a chance and beat a highly over-rated Jeff Lacy in impressive fashion. By this time, Roy was older and had demonstrated diminishing skills, so you beat him up and retire. Not as good of a resume once you really did into it as Carl Froch's, forget Andre Ward.

[Loudon]

Bailey,

Part 2.

Loudon that is pathetic. Jones admitted Calzaghe wanted to face him and i showed you links from 00, 01 and 02. Enough said

Pathetic?

Roy acknowledged that Joe had wanted to fight him for a while. That's all!

That does not support Joe's claims, that he chased Roy for 6 years!

How many more times Loudon.
He called him out and made an offer.
He was not going to lose his title and earning potential for a fight that might not happen. Jones had to agree to fight him which he didnt. Same as Hopkins didnt.
Once again, why lose a belt and money unless it is definate?
Stop ducking that question

Around and around we go.

Roy didn't agree to fight him at that specific time, because he had better offers.

But if Joe had've took more risks, and was a name, then Roy might have WANTED the fight.

Do you not think Roy was taking a risk going up to heavy?

Did he have the same attitude as Joe?

Did he say to his team "If I'm absolutely guaranteed a huge money fight against Mike, I'll give up all of my 175 titles, but if I'm not, I wont!"?

Did that happen?

Roy won his first belt at 175 in 96. He was a proud unified champion!

What did he do?

He gave up all of his belts.

He beat Ruiz, and was desperate for a fight with Mike.

He didn't get it!

He'd given up his belts for Mike, and he didn't get his shot.

He then had to come back and fight Tarver, who he hated, for his belts back.

Joe played it safe!

Nothing in life is guaranteed. There were other ways of getting Roy, such as targetting DM. But he wasn't interested. If HBO offered DM $5M, they could have offered it to other fighters who were in DM's position.

Didnt fight either of them then

Hop priced himself out, which you agree with.

DM wouldn't go to America.

Read the links. Jones was talking of fighting him before that when Calzaghe was getting rid of Sheika and Woodhall, and again when Jones was beating Woods, so I would guess as that fight was between those that Jones would have taken notice

Ok I'll rephrase the question. Do you think Roy would have given any SERIOUS THOUGHT to Joe?

He was just a possibility, and nothing more.

Once again
He was not going to lose his title and earning potential for a fight that might not happen. Jones had to agree to fight him which he didnt. Same as Hopkins didnt.
Once again, why lose a belt and money unless it is definate?
Stop ducking that question
Whats McGuigan got to do with it? Are you that influenced by commentators? Suggest you start turning the volume down when you watch boxing in future, or else you will have identical scorecards as who ever is talking

NOTHING IS 100% DEFINITE!

No, but Barry was right, and Joe himself agreed with Barry's opinion.

No it isnt. You were saying Calzaghe was unknown and not worthy but you dont think its relevant that some of Jones opponents were even lesser known
Double standards Loudon

Dear God, how many more times?

All of Roy's lesser opponents fought at 175 pounds.

Joe fought at 168 pounds.

The Fraziers, and Woods etc were mandatories. Nobody cared about them, but they moved up the rankings and got their shot.

Joe was never in the position that they were in.

Yet O Grant at MW beating R Rhode and E R Sena does get Jones interested.
Brewer was more known than any of those names and as said there was also Mitchell, though you like to forget that, and other names Jones knew like Eubank, Woodhall, Sheika etc
But sure O Grant beating R Rhodes did the trick. Got it

At that specific point in 1998, Roy was looking to fight a southpaw. Del Valle and Reggie were southpaws. Otis got the call, and was happy with his pay. He took the opportunity. Zod says it was for around $300,000 Not a lot of money, but Otis got his opportunity to fight the best fighter in the world live on HBO.

At that point, Joe had only just beaten Eubank.

As said, so was O Grant

Grant was happy to fight for peanuts, in America, at Roy's weight.

Before you say, so was Joe.

If he'd have been that willing, he'd have done it before their negotiations in 2002.

Picking up vacated title opponents from DM

Is that all he'd done in his career? Nothing else?

DM was champ and making big money in Germany, bigger than what could be made in America with bigger crowds.
Jones out rightly wouldnt go to Germany

You think that DM was making bigger money in Germany, than what he would have done against Roy, to unify the entire division?

Roy wouldn't go to Germany, and why should he have?

Germany was notorious for disgraceful judging.

He had the IBF, WBA, and the WBC belts around his waist. He was the unified champ!

Why should the worlds best fighter who had the 3 main belts, have to travel to Germany in 2001?

Never going to happen!

Because they are different countries.
think its you that doesnt.
I get what you are trying to say, but you dont answer
He was not going to lose his title and earning potential for a fight that might not happen. Jones had to agree to fight him which he didnt. Same as Hopkins didnt.
Once again, why lose a belt and money unless it is definate?
Stop ducking that question

It's been explained!!

Joe's dilemma was,

Give up his belt for a potential fight with Roy, THAT MAY NOT COME OFF.

Or,

Keep defending his belt for good money at home.


He was in the exact same position that Roy found himself in.

Joe wouldn't take the gamble!

Nobody is guaranteed anything.

You weigh up the situation, and then make your decision.

That's life!

I cant say what the money would be and once again YOU DONT KNOW.
He wanted the Jones fight or Hopkins fight to be guaranteed, nothing wrong with that as anything else he would have been losing money.
What cant you see in that?

Seriously, how old are you?

Have you had much life experience?

Roy used to proudly walk around with his seven 175 belts! He gave them up to go for his dream fight.

He didn't get it!

As I keep saying, if he'd have gone to the U.S. made a name for himself etc, Roy, HBO and the American PPV audience MAY HAVE WANTED A JOE CALZAGHE FIGHT.

But O Grant, R Frazier, C Woods etc were known enough

NO! HOWEVER, The organisations that Roy fought on behalf of, put those fighters forward, because they were ranked as mandatory challengers in ROY'S 175 WEIGHT CLASS, THAT JOE WASN'T A PART OF!

Please let me know when this sinks in!

1999 he hadnt been a world champ that long and may have said that, but soon changed his mind as in 00, 01 and 02 he was calling him out. If he did make that comment, I expect there was more to it, as he spent alot of time as proven in the links trying to get Jones in the ring. Also he fought abroad on the Tyson undercard on what I think was HBO but dont know that for sure and called out Jones. Not just at the end of that fight but alot with media before, saying Jones would be found wanting against him. That was mocking, then put in a top performance and called Jones out again.

So in 1999, he didn't want Roy or tough fights. But 12 months later HE DID?

Jones would be found wanting against him?

Haha! Based on what??


Regards, Loudon.

[dan4579]

Calzaghe must really be worshiped by British fans as much or more so than that Canadian Heavyweight they like so much to elicit this kind of reaction when his name is brought up. WOW!

[Loudon]

Originally Posted by NewsBoy

Wrong.... They all peaked at different times(Cal-Jones-Hopkins) if they were in the same era and Calzaghe still didn't fight them. It is understandable why he is to blame. But saying Calzaghe ducked Jones and Hopkins in the late 90's, 2000 is like saying Lewis ducked Tyson in the late 80's. It just makes no sense.

Hi mate, welcome to the forum.

We're not really saying Joe ducked anybody. We're saying that he didn't really chase the likes of Roy, like he claims.

An earlier fight with Roy, wasn't viable at all.

Bailey is trying to convince everyone on here, that Joe really wanted the fight, but couldn't get it. It's bullshit!


Regards, Loudon.