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Old 10-07-2012, 07:03 PM   #1
AnthonyW
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Default Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...

...who fought as regularly as 2-3, or even 4 times a month never quite reached a 'peak', or even their 'potential', given the amount of preparation that goes in to a training camp nowadays?

Training camps nowadays cover everything from fitness, to studying the opponents strengths and weaknesses, to gameplans, etc...and can regularly take place over 6-8 or more weeks (for the top boxers, anyway).

Or, is the fact that they fought so regularly what made them so great and capable of reaching such 'peaks' and 'potential'?
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:05 PM   #2
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Default Re: Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...

Both.

However much weight one puts on either arguments explains why they feel the way they do when comparing eras of the past to recent ones.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...

This thread was a success

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonito Smoak View Post
Both.

However much weight one puts on either arguments explains why they feel the way they do when comparing eras of the past to recent ones.
So you believe that the ATG boxers from the past who fought very regularly could have reached a higher level of in ring performance given more time and specifics in a training camp. But what made them so great was their familiarity with a boxing ring, and this allowed them to reach the level of performance they did. That's fair enough.

Have I got that right?
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...



Anthony, you deserve so much better.

It's kind of a tricky question to answer as I think there are pros and cons to both. To keep it concise, at the end of the day I think the old timers (sort of eyeing the 30s-50s in particular) were greater and reached higher levels due to almost constantly having to challenge themselves against the best opposition available while being in almost perpetual fighting shape. These days, just having two top rated fighters get in the ring is looked at as treat where as back then this was the norm, and there were far fewer divisions in which to be 'rated' without any easy-out trinket straps to stage shit 'title defenses' for. The downside is that when you are learning and honing your skills and ability on the job, fighting name opponents regularly, you're going to pick up a few losses for your troubles especially fighting on the type of schedules they did to earn a living. W-L ratios it would seem have gradually come to be ever so significant in the recent modern climate.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:51 AM   #5
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Default Re: Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...

Boxing IS experience. There is only so much to learn, actually: How to punch, how to move, how to block and parry, and when to punch. The rest of it is comfort, awareness, presence, conditioning, and all that lovely stuff that 99% of men can only get through rounds. Sparring serves this purpose some, but ultimately, to get a true comfort level and a solid identity as a prizefighter, you need to prizefighter.

Archie Moore, as an overall athlete, doesn't look all that impressive on film. But he is a perfect technician; He dictates fights in every sense. That is experience, grit, and a steely mind that people still talk about. I've heard old timers say that when you sat ringside at a Moore fight, you watched his eyes, his feet, and his waist, and you saw artistry.

This is, in fact, what boxing is actually about, and this mindset is dying out.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:54 AM   #6
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Yes and No
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:56 AM   #7
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Default Re: Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands of Iron View Post


Anthony, you deserve so much better.

It's kind of a tricky question to answer as I think there are pros and cons to both. To keep it concise, at the end of the day I think the old timers (sort of eyeing the 30s-50s in particular) were greater and reached higher levels due to almost constantly having to challenge themselves against the best opposition available while being in almost perpetual fighting shape. These days, just having two top rated fighters get in the ring is looked at as treat where as back then this was the norm, and there were far fewer divisions in which to be 'rated' without any easy-out trinket straps to stage shit 'title defenses' for. The downside is that when you are learning and honing your skills and ability on the job, fighting name opponents regularly, you're going to pick up a few losses for your troubles especially fighting on the type of schedules they did to earn a living. W-L ratios it would seem have gradually come to be ever so significant in the recent modern climate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittlez View Post
Boxing IS experience. There is only so much to learn, actually: How to punch, how to move, how to block and parry, and when to punch. The rest of it is comfort, awareness, presence, conditioning, and all that lovely stuff that 99% of men can only get through rounds. Sparring serves this purpose some, but ultimately, to get a true comfort level and a solid identity as a prizefighter, you need to prizefighter.

Archie Moore, as an overall athlete, doesn't look all that impressive on film. But he is a perfect technician; He dictates fights in every sense. That is experience, grit, and a steely mind that people still talk about. I've heard old timers say that when you sat ringside at a Moore fight, you watched his eyes, his feet, and his waist, and you saw artistry.

This is, in fact, what boxing is actually about, and this mindset is dying out.
Quality posts. Can't say I disagree with any of it.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane Couch View Post
Yes and No
Thanks, Jane. I can safely go to the gym with my mind at rest now.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:38 AM   #9
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Default Re: Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittlez View Post
Boxing IS experience. There is only so much to learn, actually: How to punch, how to move, how to block and parry, and when to punch. The rest of it is comfort, awareness, presence, conditioning, and all that lovely stuff that 99% of men can only get through rounds. Sparring serves this purpose some, but ultimately, to get a true comfort level and a solid identity as a prizefighter, you need to prizefighter.

Archie Moore, as an overall athlete, doesn't look all that impressive on film. But he is a perfect technician; He dictates fights in every sense. That is experience, grit, and a steely mind that people still talk about. I've heard old timers say that when you sat ringside at a Moore fight, you watched his eyes, his feet, and his waist, and you saw artistry.

This is, in fact, what boxing is actually about, and this mindset is dying out.
Great post, but its not your own. You just copied it from this thread in the classic

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

post #15
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:40 AM   #10
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Default Re: Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMo View Post
Great post, but its not your own. You just copied it from this thread in the classic

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

post #15

Oh, Dear.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:25 AM   #11
AnthonyW
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Default Re: Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMo View Post
Great post, but its not your own. You just copied it from this thread in the classic

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

post #15
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:29 AM   #12
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Default Re: Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...

Skittles, 0/10 for effort

10/10 for the audacity of plagiarising from the actual website you are using the content on

That's some oceans 11 type bravado
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:40 AM   #13
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Default Re: Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMo View Post
Great post, but its not your own. You just copied it from this thread in the classic

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

post #15


When reading that from Skittlez I was actually thinking: why can't he post like this more often?
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:20 AM   #14
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Default Re: Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...

You can train for everything you need to do, but once you get in the ring it's a completely different ballgame.

Having multiple fights, although a higher risk for injury and shorter career, will be the one that will provide the necessary experience for a pro to truly excel.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:29 AM   #15
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Default Re: Is there an argument that the great boxers from the past...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMo View Post
Great post, but its not your own. You just copied it from this thread in the classic

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post #15
Busted.
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