How much would a Marciano win over Floyd Patterson in 1956 do for his legacy?

[hernanday]

Well he'd never beat patterson in 100 years, but if we are speaking in hyoptheticals, then it would solidify his legacy, his best wins are against 6 guys averaging almost 40 in a time where people died in their 50s. It would show he was more than just a guy who beat up fading old folks. and could beat someone who was better or equally good physical specimen than himself.

[hernanday]

Marciano got wins that simply would never occur today in boxing, there is no 13th round knockout when your down on all cards and can't win on points because you were outboxed for 13 rounds, there is no fighting when your nose is split in 2 and blood is pouring, some of his fight he'd have lost by stoppage.

[round15]

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

Depends on what Patterson went on to accomplish and weather or not losing to Marciano would thwart that destiny. If Rocky knocked out a 20 year old 180 lb kid who then preceded to fade into anonymity, then my answer to your question would be, not very much...

Very good Mr. Magoo.

It depends on the career that Floyd would have had after losing to Marciano. Would have been one heckuva fight. This one was talked about by many at the time as being bigger than Louis vs Marciano.

I personally think the young Patterson would have been too fast for the Rock. The Rock has the power to drop Floyd and stop him too. Maybe an early career loss to Marciano might've helped Patterson against a later hitter like Liston. Certainly the fear element might have been diminished.

[SuzieQ49]

I personally think the young Patterson would have been too fast for the Rock.

Patterson was too weak, inexperienced in 1956 for a murderer like the Rock

[Longhhorn71]

Rocky would try to get the young, smaller version of Floyd out quickly......the fight might end in a one round TKO for Marciano.

[hernanday]

The rock was good, but he never had the power to ko floyd.

[TheGreatA]

Patterson crushed Archie Moore in 5 rounds, displaying almost never before seen speed and style of fighting, the same Archie Moore who was Marciano's outstanding challenger. The achievement of beating Patterson would've been even more special had Marciano done so after Patterson had already claimed the world title.

To say that he would've gotten no credit is ridiculous, as Rocky certainly gets his share of credit for beating Archie Moore.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMBYMutE8J0[/ame]

[FastHands(beeb)]

The thing is, there is ALWAYS someone out there who wants to fight the champion.
Say, hypothetically, Marciano hangs around and beats Patterson, then retires, then there will be someone else to fight (maybe Baker or a n other). We would now be asking "would a victory over Baker have enhanced his legacy?"

And so it goes on...

Marciano retired as undefeated champion of the world, only Tunney and Lewis did that (& they had losses on the way)...I say fair play that he had the intelligence and common sense to walk away. I wish more other great champions had had the sense to do the same, but, guess what, they didn't...that's what is part of what makes Marciano's achievement all the greater, imo.

[FastHands(beeb)]

Originally Posted by hernanday

The rock was good, but he never had the power to ko floyd.

This is imho, among the most ridiculous posts I've ever read on ESB Classic. Patterson, a man who as world champion gets knocked down by a pro debutant (among several other KDs suffered) and you don't think that Marciano has the power to ko Floyd? Seriously?

You must be on a wind-up...

[FastHands(beeb)]

Originally Posted by hernanday

Marciano got wins that simply would never occur today in boxing, there is no 13th round knockout when your down on all cards and can't win on points because you were outboxed for 13 rounds, there is no fighting when your nose is split in 2 and blood is pouring, some of his fight he'd have lost by stoppage.

And boxing is the poorer sport for it in my opinion. Today we get the likes of Haye blaming a loss on a broken toe...

Surely Marciano should get credit for these wins?

[SuzieQ49]

Originally Posted by TheGreatA

Patterson crushed Archie Moore in 5 rounds, displaying almost never before seen speed and style of fighting, the same Archie Moore who was Marciano's outstanding challenger. The achievement of beating Patterson would've been even more special had Marciano done so after Patterson had already claimed the world title.

To say that he would've gotten no credit is ridiculous, as Rocky certainly gets his share of credit for beating Archie Moore.

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Patterson beat Archie after Moore had already been brutalized by the Rock. We know what they say about opponents fighting the Rock. "After you get in the ring with Marciano, you're never the same afterward."


I think Patterson fought a great fight vs Moore, I also think Moore fought one of the worst fights of his career. Moore didn't bring his A game that night, regardless of Patterson's performance.

[MRBILL]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

Say he then retired at 50-0

The Nov. '56 Patty who KO'd Moore would probably be too spry for the aging and slower Marciano... As long as Patty doesn't get nailed early on, he'd out-box Marciano and win on points...... I see the fading Marciano with slowed reflexes by late 1956 getting hit a lot and missing many of his big shots on the constant bobbing and weaving Patterson......

MR.BILL

[SuzieQ49]

The Nov. '56 Patty who KO'd Moore would probably be too spry for the aging and slower Marciano... As long as Patty doesn't get nailed early on, he'd out-box Marciano and win on points...... I see the fading Marciano with slowed reflexes by late 1956 getting hit a lot and missing many of his big shots on the constant bobbing and weaving Patterson......

Only problem with your theory is a 1956 patterson loved to swarm and fight on the inside. He would basically be going toe to toe with Marciano for 15 rounds. Good idea? I think not. Especially when you consider patterson was only 180lb and had not fought any good heavyweights up to that point, let alone an ATG puncher like Marciano. Strength overwhelms speed in this case.

Man(marciano) vs a Boy(patterson)


Marciano by KO

[hernanday]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

Only problem with your theory is a 1956 patterson loved to swarm and fight on the inside. He would basically be going toe to toe with Marciano for 15 rounds. Good idea? I think not. Especially when you consider patterson was only 180lb and had not fought any good heavyweights up to that point, let alone an ATG puncher like Marciano. Strength overwhelms speed in this case.

Man(marciano) vs a Boy(patterson)


Marciano by KO

Pure fantasy,Marciano throws a wide shot, Patterson ko's him like he did the last 10/11 guys who step foot in a ring with him including moore.

[hernanday]

Originally Posted by FastHands(beeb)

This is imho, among the most ridiculous posts I've ever read on ESB Classic. Patterson, a man who as world champion gets knocked down by a pro debutant (among several other KDs suffered) and you don't think that Marciano has the power to ko Floyd? Seriously?

You must be on a wind-up...

Nope, not that Floyd, that floyd would simply be too elusive, too fast, marciano had a bad habit of bending over head first and throwing these jabs while circling his opponent, putting him in perfect line for a gazelle punch to the chin bye bye marciano

Floyd had many weaknesses later in his career, but he was tailored made to defeat Marciano. No, Marciano really beat guys by knocking them out when they were simply too tired, when Patterson knocked out guys, it was often done early in middle rounds like moore in 5, when he wasn't just too tired to get up, he was just out. Marciano would have to get floyd tired to knock him out and it wasn't going to happen. There is no plan that allows marciano to win such a matchup, he doesn't weigh 216 pounds so he is not going to able toknock him down just because he is bigger like liston could.

Marciano can't even beat floyd on point because he already swings wild, throw in that floyd bobs and weave, now you have floyd hitting marciano at will and marciano missing all night long, who do you think is going to get tired first. The fight ends in one of 2 ways. Marciano koed with a body shot, marciano koed with a gazelle shot on the head. Marciano was wise to retire before he got bad hurt by a younger guy and embarassed like joe louis.